Malachi Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) Inspired by Don Alejandro´s thread about the Spanish Navy, I put all plans for danish frigates posted so far in one thread. Sorted à la francaise, i.e. by caliber of the guns on the upper gun deck, not the actual gun count. 4- / 6-pounder frigates Blaa Heyren 18 guns, 1734, Benstrup Dimensions (Danish fod) Length: 86' Breadth: 22' 2' Draught aft: 11' 6'' Draught forward: 9' 4'' Height of middle gunport above the water 4' 6'' Length to Breadth ratio: 3,86 Armament 18 4-pounders Langeland 18 guns, 1758, Krabbe Based on the lines of the Royal Caroline. Dimensions (Danish fod) Length: 89' Breadth: 23' 3'' Draught aft: 9' 8'' Draught forward: 9' 4'' Height of middle gunport above the water 5' Length to Breadth ratio: 3,83 Armament 18 4-pounders 8-pounder frigates Raae 30 guns, 1709, Judichær Dimensions (Danish fod) Length: 104' Breadth: 29' Draught aft: 12' Draught forward: 11' 2'' Length to Breadth ratio: 3,58 Armament 18 8-pounders 12 4-pounders Christiania, 20 guns, 1774, Krabbe Dimensions (imperial feet) Length: 118' 6'' Breadth: 31' 11'' Draught aft: 14' Draught forward: 12' 11'' Length to Breadth ratio: 3, 71 Armament 20 8-pounders 10 Falquonettes (1-pounders) Crew 173 Other ships in class: Tranqvebar (1762), Alsen (1764), Færøe (1766) Launched in 1774 at Friderichswaern (Norway), broken up 1793. Thread: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12971-christiania-danish-20-gun-frigate-1774-with-plans/?hl=christiania 8-pounder frigate concept 24 guns, 1794, Stibolt Dimensions (danish fod) Length 125' Breadth 33' Depth in Hold 16' 7'' Draught Foreward 13' 3'' Draught Aft 14' 6'' Height of middle gunport above the water 5' 9'' L/B ratio 3.78 Armament 24* danish 8-pounders Hvide Ørn, 30 guns, 1798, Hohlenberg Model: Dimensions (danish fod) Length 124' Breadth 32' 6 Draught Foreward 13' Draught Aft 14' Height of middle gunport above the water 5' 9'' L/B ratio 3.81 Armament 24 8-pounder 6 8-pound howitzers Lille Belt 20 guns, 1803, Hohlenberg Dimensions Length 108' (danish) Breadth 28' 9'' Draught Foreward 12' 9'' Draught Aft 11' 3'' Height of middle gunport above the water 5' L/B ratio 3,75 Armament 20 danish 8-pounders (or 32-pound carronades) 12-pounder frigates Hvide Ørn 32 guns, captured 1715, ex-swedish Vita Orn Dimensions (danish fod) Length 105' Breadth 30' Depth in Hold 11' 6'' L/B ratio 3,5 Armament 22 12-pounders 10 6-pounder Christiansborg 24 guns, 1758, Krabbe Dimensions Length 128' (danish) Breadth 33' 10'' Depth in Hold 13' Draught Foreward 13' 3'' Draught Aft 14' 6'' Height of middle gunport above the water 5' 9'' L/B ratio 3,79 Armament 24* danish 12-pounders Designed by M. Krabbe, launched 1758, broken up 1786. Krabbe submitted this plan after returning from the obligatory european study trip (1752 - 1756, visiting british, french, italian and dutch shipyards) and a certain french influence is clearly visible. Perlen 36 guns, 1774, Krabbe Dimensions Length 128' (danish) Breadth 34' 6'' Depth in Hold 17' Draught Foreward 15' Draught Aft 13' 9'' Height of middle gunport above the water 6' L/B ratio 3,71 Armament 24 12-pounders 10 4-pounders Friderichsværn 36 guns, 1784, Gerner Dimensions: Length: 127' (danish) / 130' 10'' (imperial) Breadth: 36' (danish) / 37' 1'' (imperial) Depth in Hold: 17' 2'' (danish) / 17' 8'' (imperial) Draught Foreward 14' 2'' (imperial) Draught Aft 15' 2'' (imperial) Height of middle gunport above the water 6' 2'' (imperial) L/B Ratio 3,53 Armament: 26* danish 12-pounders 10* danish 4-pounders (later replaced by 12-pounder carronades) Designed by H. Gerner, probably Denmark's most eminent shipwright in the 18th century, Friderichsværn was one of seven ships of the Bornholm-class. Launched 1784 and captured by HMS Comus before the 2nd Battle of Copenhagen. Sold 1814. Other ships in class: Bornholm (1774, only 24 12-pounder on the upper deck) Kiel (1775) Moen (1777) St. Thomas (1779) Cronborg (1781) Det Store Belt (1782) Triton 30 guns, 1789, Stibolt Dimensions Length: 126' (danish) / 129' 10'' (imperial) Breadth: 34' (danish) / 35' 1'' (imperial) Depth in hold: 14' 3'' (danish) / 14' 9'' (imperial) Height of middle gunport above waterline: 5' 9'' (danish) / 6' (imperial) Armament: 24* 12 pounders + dedicated bowchase port, 6* 12-pounder carronades on the quarterdeck Designed by fabrikmester E. Stibolt and launched 1789, burnt by the british after the Battle of Copenhagen 1807. The french-style hull shape is typical for the pre-Hohlenberg era and given her rather conservative number of guns, speed seems to have been the focus of this ship. Nymphen 38 guns, 1806, Hohlenberg Dimensions (danish fod) Length: 136' Breadth: 36' Depth in hold: 17' 8'' Height of middle gunport above waterline: 6' 3'' L/B Ratio 3,77 Armament: 26 12-pounders 10 24-pound carronades 18-pounder frigates Disco 42 guns, 1781, Gerner Dimensions (imperial) length 144' 3' breadth 38' 1' draught aft 17' 9'' height of middle gunport above the waterline: 8' 5'' Length-to-breadth-ratio: 3.78 Armament 26 danish 18-pounders 16 danish 8-pounders Crew 389 Launched 1778, transferred to Asiatic Company in 1781, broken up 1795 (five voyages to India) Ships in class: Pommern (1784) A 'lastdrager' frigate, but also on the list of royal navy frigates. Thread: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13770-disco-danish-east-indiaman1778-with-plans/?hl=disco Havfruen 40 guns, 1789, Stibolt Dimensions (imperial) length 148' 3'' breadth 38' 7' draugth aft 17' draugth forward 15' 9'' distance of the meta center to true midpoint 2' 10'' (waterline) heigth of middle gunport above the waterline 6' 6'' length-to-breadth ratio 3,84 Armarment 26 18-pounders / 26 12-pounders 4 12-pound howitzers 14 6-pounders Crew 380 Main differences compared to the later Iris and Freia: Slightly rounder transom (with two stern chase ports with ornamented lids), beakhead bulkhead with huge bollard timbers and no chase port (the position of the foremost port would allow for a 30° fire angle, though), subsequently more space between ports ( 7' 5'' instead of 7' 2'') Thread: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13882-havfruen-danish-frigate-1789-with-plans/ Freia 40 guns, 1793, Stibolt Dimensions (imperial) length 148' 3'' breadth 38' 7' draugth aft 17' draugth forward 15' 9'' distance of the meta center to true midpoint 2' 10'' (waterline) heigth of middle gunport above the waterline 6' 6'' length-to-breadth ratio 3,84 Armarment danish service 26 18-pounders 4 12-pound howitzers 14 6-pounders Crew 380 british service 26 24-pounders (Gover) 14 32-pound carronades 2 9-pounders Crew 264 Launched 1793, captured by the RN in 1807. Coverted to troopship in 1811. Capable of 10.6 knots close-hauled and 13 knots running free, although rather leewardly (performance of sister-ship Iris). Good, easy sea-boat. British captains trimmed her by the head, which is quite unusual and the danish design draughts indicate that was not the case in danish service (draft was almost 2 feet deeper overall in british service). Thread: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13824-freia-danish-18-pounder-frigate-1793-with-plans/ Venus 36 guns, 1804, Hohlenberg Dimensions (danish fod) length 139' breadth 36' 6'' draugth aft 15' 10'' draugth forward 14' 10'' heigth of middle gunport above the waterline 6' 3'' length-to-breadth ratio 3,80 Freia 46 guns, 1817, Schifter Dimensions (danish fod) Length 148' Breadth 37' 9'' Draught Foreward 17' 2'' Draught Aft 15' 9'' Height of middle gunport above the water 6' 9'' L/B ratio 3,92 Armament 28 18-pounders 18 short 18-pounders Diana 20 guns, 1818, Schifter Painting of sister-ship Najaden Dimensions (danish fod) Length 112' Breadth 29' 3'' Draught Foreward 13' 9'' Draught Aft 12' 3'' Height of middle gunport above the water 5' 3'' L/B ratio 3,82 Armament 20 short 18-pounders 24-pounder frigates Perlen 46 guns, 1804, Hohlenberg Dimensions (danish fod) Length 150' (danish) Breadth 39' Depth in Hold 20' Draught Foreward 16' 7'' Draught Aft 17' 7'' Height of middle gunport above the water 6' 9'' L/B ratio 3,85 Armament 26*24-pounders 12*12-pounders 8* 24-pounder carronades Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Haratik Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Was wondering when someone would start a Danish thread, but why only frigates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Because I don´t like ships of the line, so my motivation to dig the forum for danish SoL plans is pretty much non-existant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Good post as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Because I don´t like ships of the line, so my motivation to dig the forum for danish SoL plans is pretty much non-existant. Of course, if the British are to be believed, SoLs are by far the best representatives of Danish shipbuilding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Maybe, maybe not. I find it hard to believe that danish shipwrights (Gerner, Stibolt, Hohlenberg) were able to produce excellent SoLs, but failed in frigate design. My best guess is that the british simply put to much weight (provisions+additional guns/carronades) on the smaller ships captured at Copenhagen and thus didn´t get the best out of them. For example, Freya and Iris were designed to carry 26 18-pounders and 14 bronze 6-pounders (which weighed less than iron 6-pounders) or 10 18-pound carronades and 6 bronze 6-pounders. The british armed them with 26 18-pounders (26 24-pounders in the case of Freya) and 14 32-pound carronades + 2 9-pounders. It´s a small wonder that they still managed 10 1/2 knots close-hauled and 13 knots running with a trim that was totally not the designed load waterline. The case of the Venus is especially interesting, the draught fore and aft with 4 months provisions in danish service was 15' 3'' / 16' 3'', in british service 17' / 16' 9''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 IIRC the British didn't look poorly on Danish frigates, so much as they thought them similar to French ships, with the usual pros and cons. Put another way, the British were picky but Hohlenberg's ships of the line exceeded their own exacting standards. At the end of the day it was probably a case of strategic priorities as much as sailing qualities, since the British always want tough, capacious vessels. Edit: A 32-pdr carronade weighs about 6% more than a short British 6-pounder. EditEdit: Meant to write 6-pounder. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 Edit: A 32-pdr carronade weighs about 6% more than a short British 9-pounder. Hm, a danish bronze 6-pounder weighed 1376 lbs, so 14*1376 lbs= 19.264 lbs. British quarterdeck + forecastle guns and carronades are ~ 16* 1920 lbs= 30.720 lbs. Plus the ballast to balance to the additional weight. At the end of the day it was probably a case of strategic priorities as much as sailing qualities, since the British always want tough, capacious vessels. Which no other country built, because they didn´t need to blockade french ports for months on end Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maturin Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 Which no other country built Other countries' officers don't react with mortified disbelief when they find that their frigate can't store exactly 400 bags of bread. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Added Hvide Ørn and Diana Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 (edited) ...and combined the draughts for Venus. The extremely narrow 'pink-style' stern looks pretty nice and unique. Stern rakes certainly would be a challenge (which was the intention of Hohlenberg) Another interesting picture: max angles and recoil positions for the 18-pounders on the upper gun deck. Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 20, 2016 Author Share Posted May 20, 2016 Added Raae (the one from PotBS), Hvide Ørn (Tordenskiold's ship) and Perlen (1774). I did some more digging in the archives, looks like the Venus-class was the most numerous frigate-class the Danes built during the age of sail. The first Venus was launched in 1805, followed by Najaden in 1811, the second Venus and Perlen in 1812, Minerva (1813), Nymphen (1815), Fylla (1816). What´s curious is that the designer, Hohlenberg, never saw any of these ships in the water. He resigned his post as fabrikmester in 1803 and died shortly after on St. Croix, aged 38. The design remained unchanged by his successor A. Schifter, although the second Venus, Fylla and Minerva were armed with 26 12-pounders, 8 8-pounders and 4 32-pound carronades instead of the 26 18-pounders, 4 6-pounders and 6 18-pound carronades the other ships carried. And I´d really like know what made the danish admirality chose the Venus-class over the design of Hohlenberg´s highly regarded 24-pounder frigate Perlen or Stibolt´s Havfurens for the rebuild of their frigate fleet after the disaster of Copenhagen in 1807. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 24, 2016 Author Share Posted May 24, 2016 (edited) And here´s the lovely 'Perlen' ('Pearl'), launched 1804, taken by the british in 1807, finally sold in 1846 : Length 154' 10'', breadth 40' 5'', draught aft 18' 2'', height of battery amidships 7' Armament: 26 24-pounders (long, 49cwt), 12 12-pounders (long, 27 cwt) and 8 24-pound carronades (16 cwt). The plan shows 14 gun ports + chase port, so two additional 24-pounders are possible with a suitable reduction of quarterdeck guns. And she could mount four stern chasers - the windows are just glorified gun ports - and four bow chasers (all guns coming from the broadside, of course) Official complement: 416 Considered as Hohlenberg´s best frigate and the 'apogee of Danish frigate design in the Napoleonic period'. I couldn´t find a model of the Perlen, but here´s one of the 90-gun Christian VII (totally, absolutely not the ship of the same name in the player selection poll), so you can get a better impression of the unusual stern construction: In addition to making effective stern rakes more difficult, this pink-style stern also had the advantage that the aftermost broadside guns could be used when being chased (the chasing ship usually took a leeward position , chases with a ship directly behind the other like we have ingame were less common). The possible fire angles can be nicely seen here: Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reorx Redbeard Posted May 25, 2016 Share Posted May 25, 2016 would love to have all those danish ships in game. but I think that would be to much to ask for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Niagara_1812 Posted May 27, 2016 Share Posted May 27, 2016 Nice post I liked the Raae and Hvide Ørn the best (I love ships dating from 1680-1730) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted May 28, 2016 Author Share Posted May 28, 2016 Added Langeland and Blaa Heyren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 2, 2016 Author Share Posted June 2, 2016 Najaden 1811 - 1812, sister-ship of the Venus of 1805, only ship of this class with a conventional horse-shoe transom. 'Literally battered to atoms' (citation from the official british account) by the 64-gun ship Dictator in the action of 1812/07/06. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 3, 2016 Author Share Posted June 3, 2016 (edited) Slightly out of the timeframe*, but interesting nonetheless: the Galathea. Launched 1830, she became famous for the first danish circumnavigation of the globe under captain St. A. Bille in 1846/47. *but there´s nothing too 'modern' about her; if you cut down the forecastle bulwarks, she looks pretty much exactly like Hohlenberg´s Venus-class. More about the expedition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galathea_expeditions http://reader.digitale-sammlungen.de/de/fs1/object/display/bsb10468267_00005.html http://www.galathea3.dk/uk/Menu/Historical+perspective/Galathea+1 Dimensions: length 133' breadth 33' 6' draugth aft 15' length-to-breadth ratio: 3.97 Armament: 26 18-pounders 6 6-pounders The renowned danish artist C.W. Eckersberg, who was responsible for the design of the stern decorations and the figurehead, also painted her a couple of times: Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 5, 2016 Author Share Posted June 5, 2016 (edited) Gefion: Original figurehead: https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gefion-Brunnen_%28Eckernf%C3%B6rde%29#/media/File:Galionsfigur_SMS_Gefion_1843.jpg Dimensions (danish) length 160' breadth 41' draugth aft 18' 9' middle gunport above the waterline 6' 9'' Armament 28 24-pounders 20 short 24-pounders (either 12-pounders or 42-pound carronades ingame) Crew 458 Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted June 10, 2016 Author Share Posted June 10, 2016 (edited) Here are two pictures, part of a beautiful series of drawings, about the construction of the Freia, launched in 1819: And Schifter´s ships seem to have been really fast, Gefion managed 15 knots before the wind and 12 knots close-hauled (speeds in prussian service, haven´t found anything about her in danish service), Galathea 13 knots in a strong gale and that was at the start of her circumnavigation of the globe when she was filled up to the rim with provisions, 6 additional cannons and 40 more crew than her usual complement. The Freia- and Diana-class were considered as Schifter´s best designs, though. A pity they´re out-of-period Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Loe Posted December 3, 2016 Share Posted December 3, 2016 Beautiful Shallow water Frigate could be a great new Flagships for Shallow water PBs. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Søe Ridderen 18 guns, 1758, Krabbe Dimensions (danish) length 90' breadth 23' 4'' draugth aft 10' 3'' middle gunport above the waterline 5'' Armament 18 4-pounders Crew 90 Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malachi Posted August 19, 2017 Author Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) Det Store Belt / Holsteen (renamed when in DAC service) 32 guns, Gerner, 1781 Dimensions: Length: 127' (danish) / 130' 10'' (imperial) Breadth: 36' (danish) / 37' 1'' (imperial) Depth in Hold: 17' 2'' (danish) / 17' 8'' (imperial) Draught Foreward 14' 2'' (imperial) Draught Aft 15' 2'' (imperial) Height of middle gunport above the water 6' 2'' (imperial) L/B Ratio 3,53 Armament: 26* danish 12-pounders 10* danish 4-pounders (later replaced by 12-pounder carronades) Edited April 5, 2019 by Malachi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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