More flexible ships construction

[Blaatand]

I advocate a more flexible construction/modification feature in the shipyard. I want to be able to trim the ship fitting my play - in this case making my traders fast, dumping all main guns to achieve more speed and fitting a couple of HEAVY stern guns to slow down pursuers. The ship mod section (and initial construction page) should have sliders to select weight, speed, gun sizes, gun placements, rigging quality, hold, powder storage, ammunition, crew selection (number of gunners, sailors, marines...) and all of course having results in speed, stability tonnage and so forth shown... Then I can make fast raiders with light broadsides, speed traders with only stern guns or heavy Corvettes for pirate hunting....

All in all this will make gameplay more interesting as all will have different preferences, so you never know exactly what you are up against. And in fact more period exact - just look at how all the ships stolen from Denmark were outfitted with heavier armaments by the brits and thereby got slower.....

regional bonuses and some upgrades could stay in slots but many would be better integrated here

[Rychu Karas]

Yes I know what ship I have against. fast one.

triple/quadra speed stacked for yeaaaa. That's the way how ganker play style looks like. Maybe your proposal can work but the ROE have to be remastered.

PB, heavy one. over a 10000000 structure. and if possible 500cm armor.

No there is not much ways for "adjustments".

Edited November 21, 2016 by Rychu Karas

[Blaatand]

16 hours ago, Hodo said:

There is a more flexible system in the works.  If you read the future patch plans you will see this is more or less what they are going to.  probably not as complex as you have here, but something close.

I've read all the plans and I do not see anything fluid. Again - if all is chosen from a list it will be the same options picked, not the fluidity of a real outfitting. They do talk about making the ship more important than upgrades and reducing upgrade slots but then you need to go all the way with a system more like this. Also this system covers all ship areas - guns where I want or need them, BP's are learned by finding a vessel and studying it, modifications or quality upgrades are made directly to the specs and takes time.....

[Blaatand]

Thanks - I read that a long time ago

This still looks mostly like on off switches and not gradual selection like what I propose. Further more it does not mention gun placements or sizes .

What I propose is more flexible AND includes a model for improving ships and learning BP's that is far more realistic.

As site Manager at a Large shipyard I actually know a lot about shipbuilding :-)

[Blaatand]

Lets elaborate a little:

Options on new shipyard page:

• Build or upgrade ship (costs time and not grinding to enhance gameplay)
• Modify ship (copper plating should be integral part of ship so of course done at yard)
• Rebuild wreck (One durability on all ships but wreck is delivered to Yard)
• Study design (design study should have option to study ships design - BP - or enhancements only at less time cost) ship studied is destroyed in the process

All build, upgrade and enhancement function should be tied to captains and crafting level of crafter

This has numerous positive effects:

• Tedious grinding is removed
• Number of ships will be easily limited by setting different construction and upgrade times for each ship Rating
• All have the option to build and thereby sell top level ships but as the time cost is large high quality ships will be a source of income for new and casual players. Hardcore players might have to settle for some ships of lower quality again giving newbies and casuals a sporting chance
• No more tedious build and destroy to get BP's..... but you need to capture or buy the ship you want (NPC sold ships should be limited to the basic free designs so people actually have to capture the high end ships to get BP)
• Enhancements are now also BP based so you need to capture a ship with this enhancement and study it to be able to build it. This gives business opportunity for those good at capping.
• One durability means take care of your ship but you will be able to rebuild it at maybe half the cost in mats and time.

Some of this is hinted at by devs as Hodo points out but not all and not in specifics.

I personally think this model solves the current gripes about grinding, timesinks and lack of PVP while still limits the high end ships. Also many complain about BP accessibility which should also be solved here.

Please give inputs?

[Elouda]

I like the sound of the above, except the building of rewrecks (unless there is some limit to the number of this this can be done). Its essential that there is actually a mechanism (sinking/running out of duras) to remove ships from the system, hence driving the need for new construction.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Elouda

[Blaatand]

On ‎25‎-‎11‎-‎2016 at 3:03 PM, Elouda said:

I like the sound of the above, except the building of rewrecks (unless there is some limit to the number of this this can be done). Its essential that there is actually a mechanism (sinking/running out of duras) to remove ships from the system, hence driving the need for new construction.

Sorry - forgot about that.

Rebuild of ships should be exponential and time depends on Rating.. i.e. a frigate takes 2 days first time - then 4, 8, 16, 32 .... days - people can keep their pixels but at outrageous costs

[The Spud]

I think the level of modification right now, especialy with the new super builds one can create by combining regional trims, custom trims and wood types is allready very wide. And you can get yourself a very fast trader build, it just takes some time and effort to get it done. You can always ditch some cannons for added speed or take different calibre.

I would hate to see very unrealistic gun layouts on ships, especialy on national ships, as national navys probably had predictable gun layouts. Pirates however, I would be fine with them rolling some unusual set ups like on the Pirate Frigate.

On the other proposed parts of crafting you proposed, I'm guessing the devs allready have some sort of plans in mind, so i'm kinda curious to see what direction they want to go with the crafting part of the game.

[Blaatand]

14 hours ago, The Spud said:

I think the level of modification right now, especialy with the new super builds one can create by combining regional trims, custom trims and wood types is allready very wide. And you can get yourself a very fast trader build, it just takes some time and effort to get it done. You can always ditch some cannons for added speed or take different calibre.

I would hate to see very unrealistic gun layouts on ships, especialy on national ships, as national navys probably had predictable gun layouts. Pirates however, I would be fine with them rolling some unusual set ups like on the Pirate Frigate.

On the other proposed parts of crafting you proposed, I'm guessing the devs allready have some sort of plans in mind, so i'm kinda curious to see what direction they want to go with the crafting part of the game.

Yeah - National navies had standard setups. The Danish fleet stolen by the brits were all outfitted with heavier guns and all became slower.

But ALL ships had the capability to clear the aft cabin and roll out aft guns - I am not looking for unrealistic loadouts - I am in fact looking for the realism of adding stern guns - choosing lighter calibers but directly in the build. So actually increasing cargo capability for max gun size - or shifting ballast for added stern guns.

And yes - also excited to see devs solution as they have hinted at some of my ideas.

[Blaatand]

When the Danish King went on the maiden trip on the 2nd rate SOL Christian he was amazed that it outran the frigates even without the topgallants. This is recorded.

Historically we have a lot of data on ship speeds but problem is often that these are with regional outfits (brits outfitted heavier than most and got slower ships).

Even so the game is advertised as being historical in ships designs and some work should be done to reflect this in builds, outfits and abilities.

Remember that there are several factors deciding speed (lets leave wind out as we look at similar conditions)

• Construction (emphasis on different characteristics should allow for difference in speed, maneuverability, rigging strength, stability and armor) This should be the main factor
• Mods (extra sails, copper plating, planking etc.) This should be secondary factor
• Abilities (Olympics in sailing is done in identical boats but abilities in handling makes for large spread in results!!!!) Tertiary factor but not insignificant!

  When the Devs redesign ships construction I hope it will follow this general outline?

[maturin]

Quote

When the Danish King went on the maiden trip on the 2nd rate SOL Christian he was amazed that it outran the frigates even without the topgallants. This is recorded.

Which is why we need different wind strengths.

Stability as a feature is meaningless until then (and probably even then, because of complexity).

[Blaatand]

16 hours ago, maturin said:

Which is why we need different wind strengths.

Stability as a feature is meaningless until then (and probably even then, because of complexity).

Yes

Presently all ships speeds are given based on a given wind speed. But different rigs hold up to higher wind pressure and on a theoretical level ships will max out on speed based on size (rough rule of thumb is waterline in meters is max hull speed.

Opposite holds true for low wind where some hulls and rigs will be incapable of going into the wind. Period!

 

[John Magnus Thruxton]

On 21.11.2016 at 1:35 PM, Blaatand said:

I advocate a more flexible construction/modification feature in the shipyard. I want to be able to trim the ship fitting my play - in this case making my traders fast, dumping all main guns to achieve more speed and fitting a couple of HEAVY stern guns to slow down pursuers. The ship mod section (and initial construction page) should have sliders to select weight, speed, gun sizes, gun placements, rigging quality, hold, powder storage, ammunition, crew selection (number of gunners, sailors, marines...) and all of course having results in speed, stability tonnage and so forth shown... Then I can make fast raiders with light broadsides, speed traders with only stern guns or heavy Corvettes for pirate hunting....

All in all this will make gameplay more interesting as all will have different preferences, so you never know exactly what you are up against. And in fact more period exact - just look at how all the ships stolen from Denmark were outfitted with heavier armaments by the brits and thereby got slower.....

regional bonuses and some upgrades could stay in slots but many would be better integrated here.

 

On 25.11.2016 at 3:20 AM, Blaatand said:

Lets elaborate a little:

Options on new shipyard page:

• Build or upgrade ship (costs time and not grinding to enhance gameplay)
• Modify ship (copper plating should be integral part of ship so of course done at yard)
• Rebuild wreck (One durability on all ships but wreck is delivered to Yard)
• Study design (design study should have option to study ships design - BP - or enhancements only at less time cost) ship studied is destroyed in the process

All build, upgrade and enhancement function should be tied to captains and crafting level of crafter

This has numerous positive effects:

• Tedious grinding is removed
• Number of ships will be easily limited by setting different construction and upgrade times for each ship Rating
• All have the option to build and thereby sell top level ships but as the time cost is large high quality ships will be a source of income for new and casual players. Hardcore players might have to settle for some ships of lower quality again giving newbies and casuals a sporting chance
• No more tedious build and destroy to get BP's..... but you need to capture or buy the ship you want (NPC sold ships should be limited to the basic free designs so people actually have to capture the high end ships to get BP)
• Enhancements are now also BP based so you need to capture a ship with this enhancement and study it to be able to build it. This gives business opportunity for those good at capping.
• One durability means take care of your ship but you will be able to rebuild it at maybe half the cost in mats and time.

I totally agree, that a more complex and individual kind of shipbuilding is something what a sandbox-game like this game tries to be needs.

I would also really like if the game would move away from those replicated ships... Shipbuilding would be far more interesting to me if I was able to not build a special ship that sailed the sees, I would like to pick the hull, the paint, the stern and the figurehead of a ship individually, so that every ship may look different and there may not be whole fleets of identical looking ships, what just became boring for me after a while, no matter how beautiful those ships are.

The rebuilding-wreck-part I like, too - but only for costs that would exceed a new built one by at least the double or even triple amount of resources, for already discussed reasons. Pixels safe, economy too.

Aaaand... even if it does not fit this topic 100%... I want ship names. Maybe a mix of two suggestions I have read before. Give a list of historical ship names (to those who lack creativity or interest in naming it theirselfs) and the opportunity to propose a custom name. Last would have to be moderated by the devs.

Safe waters, John

[Blaatand]

12 hours ago, John Magnus Thruxton said:

 

I totally agree, that a more complex and individual kind of shipbuilding is something what a sandbox-game like this game tries to be needs.

I would also really like if the game would move away from those replicated ships... Shipbuilding would be far more interesting to me if I was able to not build a special ship that sailed the sees, I would like to pick the hull, the paint, the stern and the figurehead of a ship individually, so that every ship may look different and there may not be whole fleets of identical looking ships, what just became boring for me after a while, no matter how beautiful those ships are.

The rebuilding-wreck-part I like, too - but only for costs that would exceed a new built one by at least the double or even triple amount of resources, for already discussed reasons. Pixels safe, economy too.

Aaaand... even if it does not fit this topic 100%... I want ship names. Maybe a mix of two suggestions I have read before. Give a list of historical ship names (to those who lack creativity or interest in naming it theirselfs) and the opportunity to propose a custom name. Last would have to be moderated by the devs.

Safe waters, John

Agree with the price of rebuilds and should be exponential for each rebuild making people retire their old trusted warhorses (seahorses??)

Very much agree with ship names but under heavy moderation - maybe only from drop down lists where you can apply to add names.... "spotted dick" might have been a dish aboard those ships but not really suited as a name.....