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Archaos

Defensive Tagging - especially by small traders

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I really feel something needs to be done regarding defensive tagging. You see another vessel on OW and are slowly gaining on it trying to get a good position in order to start the battle, but immediately you get into tagging distance the other vessel tags you into battle with no intention to fight, but only so the battle starts with him at a good distance from you so he can escape (this is problem further compounded by the coward perk).

 

I understand for fighting ships there are valid arguments on both sides for this tactic, but for an unarmed trader vessel there is no way they should be able to defensive tag. The trader lynx and Trader cutter have good points of sail to get away from most attackers and when they use the defensive tagging mechanic they are almost impossible to catch especially if the Captain knows what he is doing.

 

I think the whole defensive tagging should be looked at in general and I would say that the BR of unarmed ships should be reduced so they cannot initiate battle. This would at least solve one part of the defensive tagging.

 

To put it in real world historical terms if an unarmed trader was being attacked by an armed ship, they would first try to outrun or maneuver the attacking vessel to escape but if that failed they would give up.

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To put it in real world historical terms if an unarmed trader was being attacked by an armed ship, they would first try to outrun or maneuver the attacking vessel to escape but if that failed they would give up.

 

Well, in historical terms we had shallows that smaller traders could try to use to avoid bigger ships that could not follow them there. And OW speeds are not correct as you notice once you enter a battle and you suddenly dont catch that enemy as fast as you did in OW

 

Or suddenly Ai traders who can be caught by the slowest Santi despite between able to sail 10 knots faster in OW.

 

Yes, defensive tagging is open for abuse but if you want that fixed then ships that do manage to escape should be safe from there attackers. And you should leave a battle into OW where you press leave and not where the combat was initiated to stop re tagging and gank squads waiting among others.

 

But ofc someone chasing traders want one of the few defensive tactics for traders gone, but lets be honest and try to keep the playing field even.

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Well, in historical terms we had shallows that smaller traders could try to use to avoid bigger ships that could not follow them there. And OW speeds are not correct as you notice once you enter a battle and you suddenly dont catch that enemy as fast as you did in OW

 

Or suddenly Ai traders who can be caught by the slowest Santi despite between able to sail 10 knots faster in OW.

 

Yes, defensive tagging is open for abuse but if you want that fixed then ships that do manage to escape should be safe from there attackers. And you should leave a battle into OW where you press leave and not where the combat was initiated to stop re tagging and gank squads waiting among others.

 

But ofc someone chasing traders want one of the few defensive tactics for traders gone, but lets be honest and try to keep the playing field even.

 

Shallows do exist in quite a few places and I have used them previously to escape from a larger foe, but I do get what you mean close to the coast there should be more shallows that larger vessels cannot enter especially in the battle. Maybe they could have areas close to the coast in battles that shallow vessels could enter and larger vessels not, but the larger vessels could still shoot from deeper water as long as they were in range.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I thought the OW and battle speeds were proportional, so a faster vessel in OW would be faster in Battle although the OW speed is exaggerated? A Santi or other SoL should not be able to catch a trader either in OW or battle unless the traders sails are heavily damaged. But a fast Lynx or Privateer should easily be able to catch one.

 

I agree that ships that escape a battle should be safe and not be able to be constantly re-tagged or pounced on by others that have arrived and are waiting for him to come out. My issue is that there is hardly any point chasing a trader lynx or cutter as they will always get away by using the defensive tag even though they would have a good chance of escaping in battle without it.

 

I personally think it would make for a better game if traders were more vulnerable as they would have to form convoys for protection. As it stands now most people solo trade and only the inexperienced or greedy ones get caught. 

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Defensive tagging is necessary.

 

It's an example of a bad mechanic balancing out another bad mechanic. If there is no defensive tagging, then all battles can be started at point-blank range, which is BS. Might as well remove everything but carronades from the game.

 

And traders should be able to defensive tag as well, so they can escape using speed and maneuver the same as other ships.

 

 

Obviously the ideal solution would be to re-work the tagging mechanics so that defensive tagging is not necessary to create a semblance of balance. But that is a long and risky process.

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In the next roe when the tagging circle supposedly get's smaller, counter-tagging will bring you less effective results when you happen to stumble across a bunch of faster ships with somewhat decent sailing cohesion.

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How about if the tagging circle was changed to more of an ellipse so that it had greater distance in the direction the vessel was facing and less behind. That I think may solve some of the issues with defensive tagging for all vessels. Vessels do not usually set up to attack by pointing away from their target.

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How about if the tagging circle was changed to more of an ellipse so that it had greater distance in the direction the vessel was facing and less behind. That I think may solve some of the issues with defensive tagging for all vessels. Vessels do not usually set up to attack by pointing away from their target.

That is one of the best ideas I've read on defensive tagging.

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How about if the tagging circle was changed to more of an ellipse so that it had greater distance in the direction the vessel was facing and less behind. That I think may solve some of the issues with defensive tagging for all vessels. Vessels do not usually set up to attack by pointing away from their target.

Great idea!

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Thanks to Chaos for remembering the suggestion.

 

It is a good scheme as the ellipse represents the "will to engage" rather than a "runaway game".

 

+1

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That was my idea a while ago. The tag circle should extend fully in front of a ship, but only a little way behind it.

Thus in order to tag you need to be pointing towards a ship.

You could still turn around and attempt a defensive tag but it will require some skill and the engagement distance will be closer.

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This is a great idea. its easy to understand, very hard to abuse. the 'attack' Is naturally on targets you are chasing or alongside more than behind you. defensive tagging is too powerful atm.


 


It should not be too extreme tho. the distance behind should be at least 50% of the distance in front. don't want to make too big a change.


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Vessels do not usually set up to attack by pointing away from their target.

 

Unless they are French :lol:  :lol:  :lol: :lol:

 

B)  :P

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