Moderator Problems

[squedage]

well from what i have read on this thread (just half way too) there is more then enough salt for a goo time in here

[Skully]

As an alternative to the outright censorship, we could try to bully folks into silence.

Just tell one-another "Roll over and die!". I know that brings silence down fast.

([Edit] More than just warning points for those who do not get the hint and would like to try it out. )

Or maybe just highlight the toxic and let it stand for everybody to judge their behavior?

...

...

Gentlemen, I will ask you for true feedback, not rubbish. This is not the (almost) free-for-all National News.

Either clean it up, or let a moderator toss it. Your choice.

But maybe we should just keep it standing up as such to let you define your own caliber.

Maybe it is even possible for moderators to put such text in spoiler tags?

Then anybody who wants to be offended can open it up and potentially still vote a like on the post if they really want to.

But that last bit requires more work from the moderators and their consent as well.

WDYT?

[CeltiberoCaesar]

Hi folks,

I just want to say that I have noticed an improvement on moderators behaviour and specially Henry's one. Im glad to see that what I said was not only heared but taken into consideration, thank you guys and I hope everything goes better in the future.

Pd: i not only complain GL&HF

[Don Inocencio Botijo]

Dear brothers, I, Inocencio Botijo, Metropolitan Archbishop of Havana, have to make a confession to all of you.

 

I have been at times offensive, outrageous and intolerant. I have been a bigot and an extremist, I have threatened all captains from other nations with torment, incineration and eternal damnation. I have consciously walked along the thin line of what is tolerable and what is not, mea culpa.

 

And I have never run into trouble with the administrators or moderators of this forum, who know perfectly well the difference between healthy and fun roleplay, and toxic behaviour.

I really enjoy this forum, writing on it and reading the postings of other members, and I have enjoyed greatly the works of lots of brilliant people posting here.

 

The role of moderator is never easy and I believe they are doing an excellent job. Thanks to all of them.

 

However.

 

If any of them EVER dares to try to censor my writings or my person, the ultimate religious and moral authority in the Caribbean, representative of His Holiness the Pope and God himself in these lands, they shall face a swift investigation and slow interrogation in the basement of the Archbishopric Palace in Havana, in the hands of my devoted Inquisition officers, most likely to culminate in a nice Auto da Fe, slowly roasting in the fire feed with the wood from the captured ships of the enemies of our Lord, the King of Spain, and by extension, the enemies of God and the Holy Mother Catholic Church.

 

Recive my blessings in nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritu Sancto. Amen

Edited September 9, 2016 by Don Inocencio Botillo

[Skully]

Dear admin,

I would respectfully like to hear your opinion on the matter of Henry applying outright censorship against me, followed by a warning (albeit friendly).
 

The topic is discussion of the new rule, not the theory of tribunal or who asked for what. You're skating on extremely thin ice with me with numerous off topic posts. Final friendly warning. - H. Darby

I belief this is against the goal of the first rule we have in our Code of Conduct.
 

1. Respect
The goal is to support open exchange of ideas, and a venue for the discussion. We understand that there could be conflicts that happen when people voice opinions. Users are expected to be courteous when disagreeing with others.

I already proposed a potential solution in that regard:
 

As an alternative to the outright censorship, we could try to bully folks into silence.

Or maybe just highlight the toxic and let it stand for everybody to judge their behavior?

Maybe it is even possible for moderators to put such text in spoiler tags?
Then anybody who wants to be offended can open it up and potentially still vote a like on the post if they really want to.

But that last bit requires more work from the moderators and their consent as well.
WDYT?

Yet the post(s) were censored away.

(Also removing any legality to claims for such a warning.)

I'm not asking for any form of punishment, merely a clarification.

Yours sincerely,

Skully

Edited September 9, 2016 by Henry d'Esterre Darby
Merged from Tribunal

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Your definition of respect and mine is completely different.  Hiding your post and cautioning you that you are violating the rules is not disrespectful - it's required of me in my position as a moderator of these forums.

 

Your repeated and ongoing disrespect of the forum rules, however, could be construed to be a violation of #1.

 

Posting content in a thread that is entirely off topic is not permitted - especially threads related to rules changes, game mechanics, patch notes, etc.  Allowing people to utterly derail a topic creates pages and pages of discussion that have no bearing whatsoever on what people have gone to that topic to learn about and discuss.  Having to thread your way through 2, 3, or even 4 or more different conversations in a single thread is disorienting, confusing, and a waste of time.  If you'd like for me not to post red comments in your posts and or issue you warnings, you may want to review the rules here:  http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/2346-forum-and-sea-trials-rules/

 

These forums are here for the Developers to receive valuable player feedback and ideas for the game.  They are not here as a social experiment, for discussions of the philosophy of government and human interactions, nor for people to play barracks-house lawyer in every thread they respond to.  Off topic posts will be hidden so that they do not create a giant mess of people responding to them and arguing about them.  Repeatedly posting off topic posts will result in an application of the published rules.

 

Rule #13 - Off Topic posting is prohibited.  You have violated this rule numerous times in the past few days.  You have been warned to stop doing so and stay on the topic for that thread.  Your next warning will be a full point and a 2 day premoderation - where all of your posts will be reviewed by a moderator prior to posting them.  Further points after that will result in suspension of posting privileges for periods of time.

[horail]

These forums are here for the Developers to receive valuable player feedback and ideas for the game.  They are not here as a social experiment, for discussions of the philosophy of government and human interactions, nor for people to play barracks-house lawyer in every thread they respond to.  Off topic posts will be hidden so that they do not create a giant mess of people responding to them and arguing about them.  Repeatedly posting off topic posts will result in an application of the published rules.

 

Rule #13 - Off Topic posting is prohibited.  You have violated this rule numerous times in the past few days.  You have been warned to stop doing so and stay on the topic for that thread.  Your next warning will be a full point and a 2 day premoderation - where all of your posts will be reviewed by a moderator prior to posting them.  Further points after that will result in suspension of posting privileges for periods of time.

 

Sorry but i have to disagree with you.. this might be your point of you..

 

How do you want dev to have feedback and ideas if you cut off all humans interactions.. players that disagree need to "think" and light offtopic may help to find a way to understand what a players is trying to explain.

 

I don't think that it's a good thing to moderate a post that talk about the way you actually moderate post (that may seem a bit unfair).

 

This is only the way i feel the actual forum is moderated. 

[SteelSandwich]

Sorry but i have to disagree with you.. this might be your point of you..

 

How do you want dev to have feedback and ideas if you cut off all humans interactions.. players that disagree need to "think" and light offtopic may help to find a way to understand what a players is trying to explain.

 

I don't think that it's a good thing to moderate a post that talk about the way you actually moderate post (that may seem a bit unfair).

 

This is only the way i feel the actual forum is moderated. 

 

This is rule #13 as found in the forum rules:

13. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason. Deliberate attempts to derail a discussion may result in deletion of comments.

 

It indicates that mild-offtopic (exploring different ends of the discussion regarding a subject) is possible.

We don't cut off human interaction, yet there is a line at which topics and their content become unusable due to excessive off-topic. We stimulate people who want to go offtopic to an extend which would not suit the original topic to create their own. This way we can explore 2 discussion paths and preserve the value of both discussions.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Sorry but i have to disagree with you.. this might be your point of you..

 

How do you want dev to have feedback and ideas if you cut off all humans interactions.. players that disagree need to "think" and light offtopic may help to find a way to understand what a players is trying to explain.

 

I don't think that it's a good thing to moderate a post that talk about the way you actually moderate post (that may seem a bit unfair).

 

This is only the way i feel the actual forum is moderated. 

 

Let's say you post a suggestion about a great new feature, let's say it's related to crew experience.  Then someone else responds in your thread that Pirates shouldn't be able to capture ports, resulting in four pages of bickering about pirates.  How does that off topic discussion, in a post about crew experience, help anyone review your idea, post their own thoughts and ideas to improve it, etc?  When a developer sees your post about crew changes and thinks "hey, that might be a good idea", and then finds it full of off topic discussion, what do you think that very busy developer is going to do?  They're going to hit the back button and find something else.  Meanwhile, the idea about pirates, which may have some merit (this is just an example), never sees the light of day because it is not easily found in the topic list.

 

So, again, tell me how allowing people to talk about anything and everything, regardless of the topic of the thread, page after page, helps to provide feedback and new ideas to the developers?

[Skully]

I fully respect how you stand by your values Henry.

I apologize for triggering any insult.

I do have my own values though and I wish to come to a mutual ground of understanding.

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

No insult at all.  My language is very concise at times, which online can make it sound like I'm angry.  I have to take great care (and about 4x the amount of time) writing business emails to ensure correct "tone" is achieved.  I don't always have the time when moderating to do so.

[Skully]

So, again, tell me how allowing people to talk about anything and everything, regardless of the topic of the thread, page after page, helps to provide feedback and new ideas to the developers?

This forum is quite limited in that regard. I still think spoiler tags might be best. That way people can see and learn why things are moderated.

Do you remember how I got my warning point?

I can hardly and no longer quote it.

I think it went something like this:

Do you want to see an example of a personal insult?

You are a (sic: moderated the moderation )!

Now that is a personal insult, a moderator will now come and I will accept my warning point as a man.

Moderation: Please treat others with respect on the forums.

If you wish, you can unveil the fully moderation comment. That is not for me to put in.

Still it would take time to learn.

You can teleport away from a captured outpost. After the third time sailing back you'll remember this for life...

Edited September 9, 2016 by Skully

[horail]

This is rule #13 as found in the forum rules:

13. Off-topic posting is prohibited.

Off-topic posting is permitted within reason. Deliberate attempts to derail a discussion may result in deletion of comments.

 

 

Rule #13 - Off Topic posting is prohibited.  You have violated this rule numerous times in the past few days.  You have been warned to stop doing so and stay on the topic for that thread.  Your next warning will be a full point and a 2 day premoderation - where all of your posts will be reviewed by a moderator prior to posting them.  Further points after that will result in suspension of posting privileges for periods of time.

 

First of all, i don't really care that you delete my post (my english maybe so bad that you may not understand what i ment to say and may remove them (or hide them)).

I already figure out that players that are not known enought on this forum doesn't really have their word to say and are always smacktalked or trolled (and those post are not moderated lol) but that is not the topic here..

 

what i was trying to say is there is a difference between "Off-topic posting is prohibited".

and Off-topic posting is permitted within reason. Deliberate attempts to derail a discussion may result in deletion of comments.

 

Who and how can you define that an off topic is "deliberate" since it's just and answer to a question ask on one of the previous post ?

I'd never played angaist or with skully, but those last two day, his post doesn't seemed to be offtopic (maybe i didn't see all of them)

 

 

 

How does that off topic discussion, in a post about crew experience, help anyone review your idea, post their own thoughts and ideas to improve it, etc?  When a developer sees your post about crew changes and thinks "hey, that might be a good idea", and then finds it full of off topic discussion, what do you think that very busy developer is going to do?  They're going to hit the back button and find something else.  Meanwhile, the idea about pirates, which may have some merit (this is just an example), never sees the light of day because it is not easily found in the topic list.

 

So, again, tell me how allowing people to talk about anything and everything, regardless of the topic of the thread, page after page, helps to provide feedback and new ideas to the developers?

 

to be honest with you, i've already worked with others game devs and really hopes they are not working the way you a explaining it or maybe your role of moderator should be to tell the poster to supply in the "suggestion topic" even if you think that is a bad idea..

 

But you are sending me offtopic lol..

 

I'd replied on your answer about skully's post and didn't complain that my post disapear.

Edited September 9, 2016 by horail

[admin]

Hello everyone

Moderators are all volunteers. They are helping us a lot and have proven themselves to the community over time. 

We allow players to express if they are unhappy with moderation here. Of course everyone can make mistakes. Which are usually and quickly corrected especially if you contact them in pm in a friendly manner.

 

But if there are big differences in opinions, players will usually have to come to understanding with moderators. Not vice versa. 

[Henry d'Esterre Darby]

Hello everyone

Moderators are all volunteers. They are helping us a lot and have proven themselves to the community over time. 

We allow players to express if they are unhappy with moderation here. Of course everyone can make mistakes. Which are usually and quickly corrected especially if you contact them in pm in a friendly manner.

 

But if there are big differences in opinions, players will usually have to come to understanding with moderators. Not vice versa. 

 

I'll note that I have unhidden posts and threads, and even apologized for hiding posts when I was asked, respectfully via PM, why I did so (and often when the Captain also provided his logic as to why the post/thread shouldn't have been hidden).  Sometimes a post gets caught up in a mass-hide to get the thread under control, and sometimes the post is on-topic enough that after reviewing the hide, we might unhide it.  We're nice people, come to us respectfully and ask questions and we're happy to answer them.  We may not always turn around and change our action to your satisfaction, but we will listen.  

[Haratik]

But if there are big differences in opinions, players will usually have to come to understanding with moderators. Not vice versa. 

 

And that's the end all be all, and hopefully that's the last we'll hear of this nonsense.

[Captain Pickle]

Hello everyone

Moderators are all volunteers. They are helping us a lot and have proven themselves to the community over time. 

We allow players to express if they are unhappy with moderation here. Of course everyone can make mistakes. Which are usually and quickly corrected especially if you contact them in pm in a friendly manner.

 

But if there are big differences in opinions, players will usually have to come to understanding with moderators. Not vice versa. 

 

So we are to basically shut up and let them rule us like sheep for the slaughter ya that's a real great way to settle things for the common slave maybe but i have read some things people have gone through on here it doesn't make sense

 

there should be a better way to dispute things not with warnings for eternity, editing every post made, locking the topic from anything, or even hiding them all together that's not right it never is right.

[Skully]

And that's the end all be all, and hopefully that's the last we'll hear of this nonsense.

I read that you love censorship.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13986-request-for-stricter-moderation/

I can respect that and see that you have the option to ignore posts such as this/these.

Well, then let's assume for a moment that you are actually mature enough to tell if other people are mature or not.

In that case you should be mature enough also to ignore the posts of the idiots.

This is the very reason why I do not think a mature community memeber really needs to claim for any form of censorship.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Skully

[Captain Boneboys]

I'll note that I have unhidden posts and threads, and even apologized for hiding posts when I was asked, respectfully via PM, why I did so (and often when the Captain also provided his logic as to why the post/thread shouldn't have been hidden).  Sometimes a post gets caught up in a mass-hide to get the thread under control, and sometimes the post is on-topic enough that after reviewing the hide, we might unhide it.  We're nice people, come to us respectfully and ask questions and we're happy to answer them.  We may not always turn around and change our action to your satisfaction, but we will listen.  

This is how things should be done.

 

Have some 

[Powderhorn]

I can safely tell all of you now: We are not going to adopt a policy of studiously putting "bad things" in spoiler tags. We don't want people continuing what we would normally hide, simply through spoilers. We edit posts merely as a courtesy, when we have time and there is something worth salvaging in a post, to try to be "kinder, gentler moderators."

Throwing everything into spoiler tags serves as a bad basis of moderation AND increases the amount of time it takes to do it. Most of us already have full time jobs.

[SteelSandwich]

As sometimes happens, if you wonder why a post was removed you can always PM a moderator.

I have yet to receive a case where someone in hindsight doesn't agree/understand with the decision taken.

[Haratik]

I read that you love censorship.

http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/13986-request-for-stricter-moderation/

 

That post had nothing to do with what's going on here.  Borderline off-topic actually.

Edited September 10, 2016 by Haratik

[Skully]

But that last bit requires more work from the moderators and their consent as well.

WDYT?

I can safely tell all of you now: We are not going to adopt a policy of studiously putting "bad things" in spoiler tags. We don't want people continuing what we would normally hide, simply through spoilers. We edit posts merely as a courtesy, when we have time and there is something worth salvaging in a post, to try to be "kinder, gentler moderators."

Throwing everything into spoiler tags serves as a bad basis of moderation AND increases the amount of time it takes to do it. Most of us already have full time jobs.

Understood. I agree that we need a method that does not impose on your time.

IMHO we all have no right to demand or require time from another. This should always be free to give.

However I still think we should search for a means that closes the learning loop.

We have a saying here: "A donkey (in general) does not bumb himself twice against the same rock." (I myself do it trice.)

But if you hide the rock, how is any donkey not going to bumb itself?

Or rather, put a lighthouse on the rock, so no other ship will sail into it.

And like children, we are too curious to accept that the rock is dangerous without seeing it for ourselves.

Subsequently the invisible rock becomes a light in itself which draws many fireflies.

And then lots of ships will sink...

I'll keep pondering the issue and hope we can find a form that works for everyone.

[maturin]

Skully, have you pondered the fact that most other people don't require a proverbial lighthouse to mark clear violations of the forum rules?

 

I'm sure I've never even read the darn things, but seem to do alright.

[Anne Wildcat]

IMO, be glad we have a forum. If you don't like how it runs, make an unofficial one yourself.