Send Ships (Traders) from Port to Port

[Dick Brave]

Gentlemen,

 

currently we can send goods from a Free-Port to another Free-Port by Delivery-Contract as long as we have an Outpost in the receiving Port. This idea is good and quite reasonable.

 

But I believe it is not enough to stimulate the economy.

 

If we want to transport goods from one port to another we have to spend a lot of time for doing so. this limits the economy.

 

So I thought about the Idea of sending traders from one outpost to another transporting goods. It's just a rough idea:

 

• It should be possible to load good into the hold of a trader and send him under AI command to another outpost
• Like the Delivery Contracts, it should take a reasonable time
• Like the Delivery Contracts, it should cost a reasonable amount of Gold

 

I see one problem there: Currently, traders can be attacked in PvP. How to deal with this?

 

Options:

• Add a chance that the trader is lost during sail. Reduce that chance by adding AI escorts on additional cost.
• Create an OpenWorld AI instance for that trader and allow to hire AI escorts on additional cost.
  If a trader is captured, I believe a lot of Human-Players destroy their goods in time, so the enemy won't get profit out of this. So should the AI. As a result, the capturing Ship won't get more loot out of this like he would get from a real AI one.

 

Any other ideas on that? Or is this idea totally crap?

Edited May 29, 2016 by Dick Brave

[Paint]

Wouldnt really like that, since i think that there will be less to none Player traders sailing around again.

[Dick Brave]

Wouldnt really like that, since i think that there will be less to none Player traders sailing around again.

 

 

Sure, it would reduce the amount of player traders. But since they would only be able to move goods from outpost to outpost, they still would need to sail to non outpost harbours, Free Towns or other nation harbours under smuggler flag. So I would expect less but not none player traders.

The question is, would it help the in-game economy and what has the bigger impact on the gameplay: Better economy vs. more player traders on sea.

To be honest, I'm not sure about that - at least because I'm not sure if it really vitalises the economy. But on the other hand - is hunting foreign traders such a big thing in PvP? 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Dick Brave

[OTMatt]

Wouldnt really like that, since i think that there will be less to none Player traders sailing around again.

 

 I think player merchants will still move their cargo personally for guaranteed safety while more pvp-oriented players will use this feature instead. You make a good point but who knows it might not have that great an impact on the current form of trading.

[Reorx Redbeard]

Sure, it would reduce the amount of player traders. But since they would only be able to move goods from outpost to outpost, they still would need to sail to non outpost harbours, Free Towns or other nation harbours under smuggler flag. So I would expect less but not none player traders.

The question is, would it help the in-game economy and what has the bigger impact on the gameplay: Better economy vs. more player traders on sea.

To be honest, I'm not sure about that - at least because I'm not sure if it really vitalises the economy. But on the other hand - is hunting foreign traders such a big thing in PvP? 

I for one enjoy the new smugler feature. the trill og sneaking a Trader lynx full with compas wood into an enemy harbor to make an profit, and second to deny the traders of the nation the profit from selling their cargo with profit. and then get out again is real fun. at trying to outrun and/or outsmart an trader hunter i OW is for me really fun. all the abowe is for me just as fun as being in a Large PB  or doing small missions with some of my fellow clan members. I dont care if my cannons only do 9 point of damage insted of 10 or if I have to use 7 broadside to breake a mast insted of 6. but then, I Know the game is stil in development and far from finish.

[Diodo]

I like the idea of having AI do some of the hard and long work, but it has to happen in the actual OW, with every risk that comes with it.

 

Translated: If you don't want to do that work and don't want to pay someone else to do it, you can hire a fisherman to do a captain's job. And best of luck with that.

[Cpt Blackthorne]

Gentlemen,

 

currently we can send goods from a Free-Port to another Free-Port by Delivery-Contract as long as we have an Outpost in the receiving Port. This idea is good and quite reasonable.

 

But I believe it is not enough to stimulate the economy.

 

If we want to transport goods from one port to another we have to spend a lot of time for doing so. this limits the economy.

 

So I thought about the Idea of sending traders from one outpost to another transporting goods. It's just a rough idea:

 

• It should be possible to load good into the hold of a trader and send him under AI command to another outpost
• Like the Delivery Contracts, it should take a reasonable time
• Like the Delivery Contracts, it should cost a reasonable amount of Gold

Great idea above. I think the cost should be lower considering we purchased an OP there.

 

I see one problem there: Currently, traders can be attacked in PvP. How to deal with this?

 

Options:

• Add a chance that the trader is lost during sail. Reduce that chance by adding AI escorts on additional cost.
• Create an OpenWorld AI instance for that trader and allow to hire AI escorts on additional cost.

  If a trader is captured, I believe a lot of Human-Players destroy their goods in time, so the enemy won't get profit out of this. So should the AI. As a result, the capturing Ship won't get more loot out of this like he would get from a real AI one.

First bullet, not for me. I want to see flags in OW. That way, if I see an enemy clan's trader running in OW I can choose to attack it to cripple their economy. Conversely, if I see the contra ship is one of our own nation's, or at least see if it's a allied player's trader, I can choose not to cap it. I don't like AI probability equations determining the outcome of game economics.

 

Second bullet, interesting idea that I pushed for Players to have the option of also. If I see an AI fleet running, I'd like the option to right click on it and choose an escort option having that fleet escort me. I also think that these AI fleets should not show as a single ship, but rather all ships in that fleet should show in OW. BTW, some of these fleets are ridiculously enormous! 20 Vics, 20 Santis, 18 3rds, all in one fleet...ya um not. Plus if we can finally see each ship in OW, that many ships at once would wreck some fps for some of us. So DEVs, please make all fleets show each individual ship, and restrict the sizes of these AI fleets.

 

Any other ideas on that? Or is this idea totally crap?

 

I like....mostly. Good ideas, hope it gets implemented.

[Macjimm]

Great idea. As long as the ship makes the journey and can be attacked by other AI and players.

[Long Beard]

Getting rid of the ability to teleport cargo in ships was a great step forward for us traditional pirates who spend a large % of the game hunting player traders.  Allowing people to magically bypass the open seas would be a step backwards again. 

Now I know you would be saying obviously a Pirate is going to say that, but I have to take the same risks when I'm moving MY precious cargo around. Which I do. Often!

[Dick Brave]

Getting rid of the ability to teleport cargo in ships was a great step forward for us traditional pirates who spend a large % of the game hunting player traders.  Allowing people to magically bypass the open seas would be a step backwards again. 

Now I know you would be saying obviously a Pirate is going to say that, but I have to take the same risks when I'm moving MY precious cargo around. Which I do. Often!

 

It would be still an option - not more, not less. No one forbids to transport your good sby your own. And if the goods are transported by an AI fleet you can capture in the OW it should be OK (IMHO). Finally it's not the same as teleporting as you have to pay for it and it will last a reasonable amount of time, e.g. the time it takes to sail that way by your own.

 

 

 I think player merchants will still move their cargo personally for guaranteed safety while more pvp-oriented players will use this feature instead. You make a good point but who knows it might not have that great an impact on the current form of trading.

 

Depending on the goods to transport I would even consider to do it by my own instead of having an AI doing it. And yes, who knows what impact it would have on the current form of trading. At the moment I believe the most impact would have a free market without fixed prices and the ability to purchase or trade labour hours. But hey, heaven knows.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Dick Brave

[Hethwill]

This AI hauling is only viable when ALL, and I mean ALL, npc trader ships are generated related to player deliveries.

Other than that , no. Makes no sense.

 

It will be a step back, a big step back. on the road to finally reformulate the Pirates to be a honest and hard faction.

[Dick Brave]

This AI hauling is only viable when ALL, and I mean ALL, npc trader ships are generated related to player deliveries.

Other than that , no. Makes no sense.

...

 

Why is that? I don't see that necessity but maybe you can bring up some good arguments.

[Hethwill]

Yes.

 

Personally there is little interest, on my behalf, to chase and take hold of a ship which cargo will have no impact on the world.

 

How to tell the difference from a Delivery NPC and a "junk" NPC ? If all are delivery generated then we are cool

 

If not I rather stop this piracy/corsair/privateer nonsense and go back to flying cockpit.

 

It is the entire purpose of trade hunt. To win the loot for myself primarily and as secondary deny it to someone else.

 

Maybe in PvE server it matters not, but in PvP it surely does.

[Dick Brave]

Ok, I understand.

 

What happens if you capture a human trader? Do you get any loot from him? I would expect no, because as soon as one recognizes that he will be boarding and most likely loose the boarding he will destroy all the goods in his hold. At least this is what I would do in order to deny your nations economy (ahm.... Pirates - no nation for me, they are just Pirates - just a side note) the profit of the loot. So far so good.

 

Now, what happens if you capture an AI trader? You get a small amount of loot which is added to your nations ecosystem while it is lost for his.

 

And what would happen to an AI trader sailing on behalf of a human player? Nearly the same: You get a small amount of loot which is added to your nations ecosystem while the full is lost for his. Probably you get more loot out of ten captured AI traders (Pure NPC and AI in behalf of) than from ten human traders.

 

And don't forget - the Idea is that this mechanic only works between outposts of one player. There's still a need to move goods between other national ports, Free-Towns or as a smuggler.

 

Now, finally I'm not a Pirate and I believe that the idea of being a Pirate and the way how it works out in the game needs some amendments. But currently I believe that this Idea would help the whole game more than it probably hurts a few.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Dick Brave

[Hethwill]

Yes we get the loot from players, and it is hard to believe 1500 labour hours worth of good will be dumped out.

Usually the resources they bring back from the mines/plantations/ etc so yes, it gives pyracy a proper existence.

 

If the AI carries those same resources, good.

 

All other AI would just mess up the entire "ecosystem" given now we can see it is a trader-player and we proceed accordingly as we know it is loot for real.

[Dick Brave]

Yes we get the loot from players, and it is hard to believe 1500 labour hours worth of good will be dumped out.

...

 

If you were bringing up my Traders Snow or LGV by your Trinc or Const I'd assure you: You would get exactly nothing except some holes in your sides and sails.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Dick Brave

[Hethwill]

If you were bringing up my Traders Snow or LGV by your Trinc or Const I'd assure you: You would get exactly nothing except some holes in your sides and sails.

 

Yes. Nothing less would be expected Sir, as it should be. Still for every 10 that run away 1 is caught and enough loot to feed a smelter for a week. And forget heavy frigates. It is not an appropriate freebooter choice for many a reason.

 

So, AI always generated by player Delivery or we stick with the present system ?

[Dick Brave]

...

 

So, AI always generated by player Delivery or we stick with the present system ?

 

You haven't convinced me so far.

 

1.) The mechanics are all the same for every nation and pirates. Like any other nation, I bet there are also pirates trading and crafting. So they need to transport their goods as well.

2.) Using that Idea a lot more goods could be transported at the same time which would help the whole game ecosystem IMHO.

3.) Transport by AI will cost gold.

4.) Transport by AI can be protected by AI fleet which cost additional gold.

5.) Transport by AI would happen in OW so it can be captured. Goods are lost for the nations ecosystem.

6.) The attacker will definatly get loot out of his prey.

7.) Only transports between outposts are possible by AI.

8.) Transports from or to other ports, Free-Towns, smuggling has to be done by the player himself.

 

It is only an option and it has some risks, so I doubt that it will be userd for every transport. Expensive or important goods I would still consider to transport by my own in order not to take a direct course.

 

Since there's still enough loot to make (AI / other transports / human transports), I still believe that this idea would help the whole game and the majority of players.

[William the Drake]

I like this idea, Creating more specific cargos of traders, and freeing up players for combat and playing the game rather than trade runs all the time. In a post of mine, I hinted at a similar system for world resources:

 

Transportation of Resources- After the raw materials have been extracted, they will need to be transported to the player's manufacturing port. This could be done one of three ways.

1. The player personally transports the materials in their own vessel.
2. The player hires a trader NPC which will act as a fleet following the player.
3. The player can set up a trade route which NPC traders will routinely transport goods even when the player is not at the port. Escorts can hired to be attached to these traders. This is the most expensive up-front cost, as the player will need to hire both the trader and any escorts, however the payoff will be the ability to go off and play while the NPCs do the hauling for you. The player can order the trade route to stop or alter the trade route when the player is docked at any port

 

This could be expanded here for all player resources. Initial cost being the ships to carry cargo and their escorts, salaries for as long as you own said vessels, and then pay for any and all voyages. The longer the voyage, the more $ it requires. Similarly, the more cargo is being moved, the more it costs. 

 

This AI hauling is only viable when ALL, and I mean ALL, npc trader ships are generated related to player deliveries.

Other than that , no. Makes no sense.

 

It will be a step back, a big step back. on the road to finally reformulate the Pirates to be a honest and hard faction.

 

I think it could be tweaked to make it viable. What if we have randomly generated NPCs carry only raw materials; just ore and hemp and no Swedish iron and the like?

 

Or have NPC traders only carry 1/4 or 1/3 of what regular traders normally carry, making attacking NPC traders viable, but player NPC traders much more lucrative?

[Hethwill]

 

 

Since there's still enough loot to make (AI / other transports / human transports), I still believe that this idea would help the whole game and the majority of players.

 

I agree that it can make the game better, but maybe I did not explain myself correctly regarding my concerns.

 

As it is now I can see the difference. Respectively, Player trader and AI trader, so I can effectively chose which one I will try to get a hold on. Simple, it works.

 

Let's suppose we test Deliveries by AI shipping. We will have 2 types of AI, right ? How will we be able to tell the difference ?

[Dick Brave]

You shouldn't be able to tell the difference, because if you were able you to, would only pick on player hired AI's for an easy prize and would probably leave the human traders alone, won't you? Or maybe not, because the human traders probably have really valuable good aboard. Uh... surprise

 

You see, it would not even add a certain factor of chance for the trader player who hires an AI for transporting goods, it would also add a factor of chance for those creatures who decide to get rich on the expenses of others. Fair deal, isn't it?

 

Maybe Willy Drakes idea would make it somewhat more interesting.

Edited May 30, 2016 by Dick Brave

[Hethwill]

Sure. Until then I know what to hunt It already carries the risk for the reward.