Unsightly Royals

[maturin]

Am I the only one who is seriously turned off by the unlovely proportions of the royal sails carried by certain ships? The royals are the (fourth) highest square sail on each mast.

 

Specifically, St. Pavel and Essex carry royals that are many times wider than they are tall, and ruin the otherwise graceful effect of their tapering pyramid of canvas.

 

(Apologies in advance for the sub-par pictures)

 

 

http://navalaction-france.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/2015-12-07_00004-1024x545.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/IpGthCT.jpg

 

 

Again, the royals are the highest square sails. Compare these to the more neatly-proportioned royal sails carried by Surprise, Constitution and Santissima.

 

 

Now, the game chooses to include or omit royal sails for purely aesthetic reasons. Most of the in-game ships that lack them would historically have used them in suitable conditions.

 

Since we are designing models with beauty in mind, why not remove the royal sails that do not improve ships' appearance?

 

(Obviously this isn't of critical importance, I've been waiting literally years for Constitution, Victory and Trinco to lose their spritsails, after all.)

[maturin]

I see you there, Surcouf.

 

Do you know anything about these short, wide royals? Are they a more modern shape? Or historically inaccurate?

 

 

For example, the royal yards on Essex really were that long, but who knows how high they were hoisted? Maybe the sail was taller than that.

[Surcouf]

I try to get an answer tonight, but my english sucks. I will post drawings of French royals sails to try to answer.

[Surcouf]

As I said, my English sucks, but I trials.

 

In France the royals are sails appeared around 1782 with the plans of Mr Sané. But it is not in the regulations.
In 1804, the regulation incorporates the royals.

Here is what says Jean Boudriot the 1804 regulation:

 

1804.

New regulations were adopted, and the principale of interchangeability between topmasts and topgallants was abandoned.

The sprit-topsail, aleready declining in use the end of the 18th century, was abandoned, and the yard now only seved as support for certain item of rigging, no sail being bent to it.

A fourth tier of sail was added with the royals (third tier in the case of the mizen).

A fourth jib was added, in the shape of the flying jibsail, rigged either to an extended jibboom, or else to a flying jibbom.

Two further stailsails were adopted, one an upper middle staysail bent between the midddle staysail and dthe topgallant staysail, the other a mizen-topgallant staysail.

Although commonly employed in the years following the collapse of the Ancien Régime, the gaff-mizen for bad weather. A gaff topsail, a driver and a save-all or water-sail were added to the gaff-mizen.

The fore- and main-topsails now had four reef-bands, the mizen-topsail three.

 

The geometries of the royals:

The geometry varies masts, the period and the type of ships.

 

Here are pictures (this is better than my English ...)

 

74-gun of Sané

 

Frigate of 18-pdr Sané (misen mast, see sail IV (sail V = skyscraper sail))

 

Frigate of 18-pdr Sané (main mast,see sail IV (sail V = skyscraper sail))

 

Frigate of 18-pdr Sané (fore mast,see sail IV (sail V = skyscraper sail))

 

Brig of 16 caronnade of 24-pdr (main mast)

 

Brig of 16 caronnade of 24-pdr (fore mast)

 

Brig of Commission de Paris 1824

 

Corvette Galathée (1845 sail plan)

 

Corvette La Créole 1827

 

Difference between la Belle Poule (right) (60-gun of 30-pdr, 1827) and the USS Constitution (left)

 

 

That's all I can say no more.

[Wicked Mouse]

Irrelevant to the current subject, but in that last picture neither of the cross sections looks like one of the La Belle Poule:

 

 

And I couldn't find anything about a ship of the same name from 1827

Edited April 29, 2016 by Wicked Mouse

[Sella]

Irrelevant to the current subject, but in that last picture neither of the cross sections looks like one of the La Belle Poule:

 

 

And I couldn't find anything about a ship of the same name from 1827

 

I believe its the 1828 Belle Poule's cross section from what Surcouf said above of the pictures and the other one is of the Constitution

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_ship_Belle_Poule_(1828)

[Surcouf]

Here :http://mnm.webmuseo.com/ws/musee-national-marine/app/collection/record/9669?vc=ePkH4LF7lVbBbtswDP0Voz-ww74gaztsw4IVQ7trociMw0KWVFHK0r_foy0rbtLLDkGoJ4qiSeqR1-3pZukgn2_-pz4-XYdolYb2PAr33Ug9m64Pf70Lpldj6tdPJBBq9kBbStT5MlIK3_2xSncUQ67yFyav686UnAgEpaBoCViOjj1BDqBcCHfbr50PIzjQTSSPDtITAPYmc_B4hj2dnteQdCZGcm69v0JgmoSHWfcPDBrbjDRc6kZm9Q8OZHhy3u7IC43aA4YUSoSGTVStz7amNZW0rMkGR8vCMZXTbT1RsYHCkEw8MH1DHENilEtToSN5QgxyQyaPfpNxLPXeASpCzdq0CLsXyrIRCZZx-0Et_6JyRHokv7lFe5YjpiUW2EI7mS9RHkscJ3kEhLTKfX4ke_Dq3vI5y1Zd5vO-lBjxomSqmDLqvxTVHE1ShXuMDe0KOXvwDg1IrQE34EBnvHFvKGKCqiAes5_42qTReAeSmyJ2Cbc7ZPOhrR5pu4AEI5S9si-c6TY4Rxbd3-z3fMILoNIgt17YKmhBjJQP4L22d_aoQSXzktga1BUiF9BkdH5IOgjI0-pwK5ynK4tTEV7DH9XhWuvs7RpFQ22lqPSTS5YfJXE_14Hy_Ma-FhycNI46dKnbPUhADOacmFDQtj5fj2pFd5VNjCAy8gCUEVLgLNuQTDnVxYPJiTHyskJrHx4ojcbju5EaATtmjHmUMD8xoCEhdfMLAuGptx1cwy9wF0q3451jsBH6f5j9RQ3uROfLyh-83xeZQtbrw6dnuKnfyHuVlgliB8ZBdkOZR8rWO_4Bfvc64A$$

 

La Belle Poule of 1765 has no royals.

 

"In France the royals are sails appeared around 1782 with the plans of Mr Sané. But it is not in the regulations.
In 1804, the regulation incorporates the royals."

[Malachi]

For comparison, here´s one of the earliest sailplans that I have showing royals:

 

 

(danish 12-pounder Bornholm-class, dated 1774)

 

30 years later, Hohlenberg´s Najaden with royals (+ royal studding sails ) and skyscrapers: