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Don't expose shop data to public


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Hello.

I generally really like the idea of the trading/resource system as it is right now. Sure, it might need some tweaks here and there, but compared to the general MMO, it really stands out for me.

But there is something that gets me worried, in terms of "it might make trading dull".

As stated in this post: http://forum.game-labs.net/index.php?/topic/12052-public-api-for-naval-action/ server data such as item prices, item stock at ports etc. get exposed to the general public in order to make them able to develop web applications that contain live information of the game's market and economy. This seems like a good thing, but it could also take something from the game.

When i first looked into the trading system, i got really excited. With an organized clan, you could always let your clanmates gather intel on where to get some cheap goods, where the demand is huge etc. etc. With the current api and amount of published market data however, sites such as http://www.navalactioncraft.com/map can completely do the job of gathering that information themselves, handing all the data to everyone without any effort. To me, this seems like a wasted potential. It tunes trading down to check some excel-ish sheet on some website, go for the item with the best profit/distance, sail there, sail back, get money.

To me, the idea of trading become more of a "the better your (trading) clan is organized and the more effective you are at gaining intel on the current ecenomy, the better you do" seems way more appealing than just checking a website. We have similar "trading made simple" mechanics in other MMOs such as WoW (e.g. the addon "auctioneer"), but i think it fits those games way better, since trading is way more simple and not such a huge part of the game. In Naval Action, i'd like to see trading being almost a vital to the game as the combat. I sure understand that combat is still the main focus, but forcing you to work as a community in order to make trading worth the effort will prevent it from becoming a pure grind and more of a skill to master.

Additionally, currently it seems kind of nonsense to me that you can just check a website for all the port's contents and item prices, while you have to visit a given port ingame to even see what it generally can produce and which goods it demands. If we allow websites to hand all that information to us, we could as well just see it on the ingame-map.

I therefore added a poll to this suggestion, asking you if you share my opinion and if so, if you think it should be that way for all servers (answer 1), or optionally only for some (answer 2), or if you generally disagree (answer 3).

Poll removed by mod team for being non-essential to the discussion.

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Navalactioncraft is player updated.  AFAIK there is no API to extract current data from the game itself.  The market is so fluid anyway as to make any stored data obsolete as soon as it is recorded.  I know because I trade a lot and maintain my own spreadsheet, updating it as I visit ports around the Caribbean.  Seldom are the prices on subsequent visits the same and often they are vastly different.  Just my $0.02.  Full sails!

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Navalactioncraft is player updated.  AFAIK there is no API to extract current data from the game itself.  The market is so fluid anyway as to make any stored data obsolete as soon as it is recorded.  I know because I trade a lot and maintain my own spreadsheet, updating it as I visit ports around the Caribbean.  Seldom are the prices on subsequent visits the same and often they are vastly different.  Just my $0.02.  Full sails!

 

read this:

 

 

As stated in this post: http://forum.game-la...r-naval-action/  server data such as item prices, item stock at ports etc. get exposed to the general public in order to make them able to develop web applications that contain live information of the game's market and economy. This seems like a good thing, but it could also take something from the game

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Hmmmm... So, to use your, um... skill and coordination with trading you need the market to be shrouded in mystery you only reveal when you take the time to visit any given port?

Surely eco players can achieve more with their skill when they can use their analytical muscle parsing a daily snapshot of the shops?

Anyone can sail around and stumble over a stack of sought after items. Not everyone can use API data to read the entire picture and deliberately plan their shopping for max profit.

I'm not a fan of the mystery concept. I hope they continue with this API stuff.

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Perfect information is not appropriate to this game, in my opinion.   The lack of information, prices included, is what should drive OW travel and collaboration between players.   It also introduces some luck into the world.

 

* Which ports produce what can stay - this drives larger strategy around limited resources and trade routes.

 

* Some price information could be provided in the Ships Letter mechanism -- "I spoke a fishing vessel off Las Aves, who said they were short of <insert goods here>"   Or, "The price of <goods> is $123 at <port>".

 

* I think speculation in prices would be a good mechanic to emphasize in the game, with some simulated drivers like declared wars between nations, seasonally limited supply, blocked trade routes, etc.

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Perfect information is not appropriate to this game, in my opinion. The lack of information, prices included, is what should drive OW travel and collaboration between players. It also introduces some luck into the world.

* Which ports produce what can stay - this drives larger strategy around limited resources and trade routes.

* Some price information could be provided in the Ships Letter mechanism -- "I spoke a fishing vessel off Las Aves, who said they were short of <insert goods here>" Or, "The price of <goods> is $123 at <port>".

* I think speculation in prices would be a good mechanic to emphasize in the game, with some simulated drivers like declared wars between nations, seasonally limited supply, blocked trade routes, etc.

I agree, I particularly like the idea of the Ships Letter mechanism Edited by PrewashedYeti
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Hmmmm... So, to use your, um... skill and coordination with trading you need the market to be shrouded in mystery you only reveal when you take the time to visit any given port?

Surely eco players can achieve more with their skill when they can use their analytical muscle parsing a daily snapshot of the shops?

Anyone can sail around and stumble over a stack of sought after items. Not everyone can use API data to read the entire picture and deliberately plan their shopping for max profit.

I'm not a fan of the mystery concept. I hope they continue with this API stuff.

 

i objoect to that :D i actually like the whole mystery thing. I ain't no trader so i'll keep a lil quiet on the whole thing. jodgi stated tht it wont make a big difference due ot the fact that ppl r having more and more productio buildings , i agree on that. i say give it a try the way it is now. and after a week or two give feedback on it. it's only been here for a day or two and like i sayed before i have no idea bout trading , so i really can't see the consequences. can any trader already see a difference ?

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Perfect information is not appropriate to this game, in my opinion.   The lack of information, prices included, is what should drive OW travel and collaboration between players.   It also introduces some luck into the world.

 

* Which ports produce what can stay - this drives larger strategy around limited resources and trade routes.

 

* Some price information could be provided in the Ships Letter mechanism -- "I spoke a fishing vessel off Las Aves, who said they were short of <insert goods here>"   Or, "The price of <goods> is $123 at <port>".

 

* I think speculation in prices would be a good mechanic to emphasize in the game, with some simulated drivers like declared wars between nations, seasonally limited supply, blocked trade routes, etc.

 

Secrecy of prizes gives an unfair advantage to multi accounts and big guilds.  Teamspeak/mail was not  very common in XVII century at it appears  :huh:

 

having a prize snapshot is in fact much more realist, as that kind of info spreads naturally , but is old ...  IMHO the info sholud be daily recorded...with the data of the previous day., with the time comprassion od real time/game time that gives quite appropiate info

Edited by Eishen
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Secrecy of prizes gives an unfair advantage to multi accounts and big guilds. Teamspeak/mail was not very common in XVII century at it appears :huh:

having a prize snapshot is in fact much more realist, as that kind of info spreads naturally , but is old ... IMHO the info sholud be daily recorded...with the data of the previous day., with the time comprassion od real time/game time that gives quite appropiate info

Teams and guilds would have an advantage, but this is just one of several advantages inherent in collaboration and occurred in real life too.... the trading companies.

I dont think the collection and distribution of price data woukd be perfect in a large group even... it's too time-consuming. They would have better info, but not complete.

Especially if we take your idea of publishing historical price data, which I think is a good suggestion.

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I suppose it's a question of where you think the balance will fall:

 

Too many traders for not enough trade goods

Too many trader goods for not enough traders

 

If the former, then secrecy could help you be that 1 trader who finds a really nice coal stash somewhere out of the way where some lazy coal producer is just dumping on the market. Every other trade is scrounging around but you've got the mother lode!

 

If the latter, then public information will help the few traders make more efficient use of their time. There's more stuff to buy, deliver and sell than they collectively have time for so it's really a question of just helping them spend their time more wisely.

 

 

I'm betting on the latter. The only reason I do my own coal delivery is because I'm pretty sure nobody would know where to buy it if I just threw it onto the market of the local port.

 

This is going to be even more important once NPC production ramps down to 0 and you have no idea where to look for stuff.

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Perfect information is not appropriate to this game, in my opinion.   The lack of information, prices included, is what should drive OW travel and collaboration between players.   It also introduces some luck into the world.

 

* Which ports produce what can stay - this drives larger strategy around limited resources and trade routes.

 

* Some price information could be provided in the Ships Letter mechanism -- "I spoke a fishing vessel off Las Aves, who said they were short of <insert goods here>"   Or, "The price of <goods> is $123 at <port>".

 

* I think speculation in prices would be a good mechanic to emphasize in the game, with some simulated drivers like declared wars between nations, seasonally limited supply, blocked trade routes, etc.

didnt the dev say they might add something like this to the game like ship report letters but trade report letter instead?

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public information will help the few traders make more efficient use of their time. There's more stuff to buy, deliver and sell than they collectively have time for so it's really a question of just helping them spend their time more wisely.

 

 

I'm betting on the latter. The only reason I do my own coal delivery is because I'm pretty sure nobody would know where to buy it if I just threw it onto the market of the local port.

 

This is going to be even more important once NPC production ramps down to 0 and you have no idea where to look for stuff.

 

This.

Moreover, spotting a deal is only half the deal. You still have to sail to the port and get the stuff, so let who wants it fetch it and use it. It's not even a PotBS-like live market info tool allowing you to buy anthing from anywhere ;)

 

How many times do you sail to your trading port(s) only to see that someone already purchased what you're looking for, and you now have to wait even more hours -or come back again- to get what you need? If it doesn't ring a bell please don't vote no above :P

 

Hours of boring sailing saved. Honestly, who would turn down a tool that lets you make better deals? :huh:

This one seems to only show a single report for the whole day. Not a threat for sure.

 

 

The lack of information, prices included, is what should drive OW travel

 

Kindly see above.

Plus traders don't like half-filled cargo holds. Pirates neither, mind you ;)

Edited by Captain Red
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  • 3 weeks later...

Changed my vote on this. Before I stated Do NOT expose prices.

However, having used Naval Action Craft to check shop item prices its bloody useful as a trader to have this available. True, its not very realistic but neither is team chat, nation chat, team speak or email. it doesn't actually provide a massive benefit but is does actually open up the possibility to have some chance of making some reasonable profit. Without it you are not going to bother risking an hour and half sailing ONLY just to get very little return.

In fact I would go as far as to say its vital to give the trading aspect of this game a chance. Even with the data being available I'm finding it very difficult to make good money. By that I mean more or equal to just grinding AI.

 

Point is - it has not provided to be the huge negative I thought it would have been . It also ensure single players have equal opportunity to those in huge clans.

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This is an item where I think "realism" should be sacrificed for gameplay. It is already very time intensive to travel between ports, and I think most people/clans don't have the time or energy to support a system where you have to physically check each port for prices.

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