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  1. Hello, At start this patch was announce as something crazy wich could allow us to really choose how to build our ships. We were supposed to be able to choose guns, armor, crew and more. Each stat was suppos to change others stat to get a balance ship or not depending on the craft. What we got in the patch is nothing more than putting out regional bonus and ship quality. THERE IS NOTHING NEW IN REGARD OF CRAFT IN THE PATCH Now, ok there is ship knowledge but it's nothing in regard of the craft. Crafting gun? Nothing in regard of ship craft, it's just introducing more manufacturing items to build the ship but it doens'nt change the ship craft. So all this noise for nothing? There is still thing we are waiting and this things are necessary for us to plan our implitantion on next wipe. Ressources were supposed to be moved to balance the things and make rvr more interesting. Regional bonus were supposed ot be craftble and added in reciepe. Sol note were supposed to be tradabole against pve mark or pvp marl and necessary to craft sol. When are we going to see this change? Are they forbidden as almost everyhting what was supposed to make the new craft awsome?
  2. The forthcoming server wipe will remove vast hoards of accumulated gold and has been welcomed by many players as the chance to eliminate inflation and start again. I thought I'd take a look at the economy to see if these hopes are justified, and maybe uncover other things on the way. We don't yet know what the economy will look like after the wipe. All we know for certain is that all gold will vanish and ships will have 1 dura. What I want to do here is look at the economy as it is now, so we can offer suggestions to help the devs make the best decisions before 20th April. In this post I will use current recipes, building capacities, compass wood drop rates. I'll also use grey ships as this seems to be the best guess at what post-wipe ships will be. To save you wading through treacle, I'll start with the conclusions: Without major changes to blueprints, inflation will quickly become a problem again A grey Trincomalee costs 79273 gold in click costs, which might sound reasonable enough. But it requires over 2 days' stored labour. Essentially, crafters can only sink, on average, about 30k-40k gold a day which is a small fraction of the money coming into the economy. Following the wipe we will all be poor to start with, setting up outposts and buildings (generally more expensive than building ships - but you should only need to do it once). But gold will quickly accumulate, with apparently nowhere to go. There isn't a single right solution to this. Increasing blueprint click costs would help, as would reducing LH requirements. The devs could introduce new or increase existing gold sinks, such as crew costs, repairs, gunpowder and ammo - but if these are player made then they too need a high gold to LH ratio to have an effect on inflation. Or they could sell things players might want to buy, such as paints. But it has to be something that players will buy again and again. Existing blueprints encourage econ alts If you only have to find 30k gold a day to fund your econ alt, this is easy. But if blueprint click costs averaged 100k per day this would be rather harder to support. Of course, the devs might wish to passively encourage alts as they gain money that way; furthermore econ alts do help reduce inflation as they sink money without generating any. You had better look after your 1 dura ship That Trincomalee you have takes nearly 2.5 days to make. A Constitution takes 4 days. Even a Surprise takes 1.5. It does look like blueprint LH requirements need to come down. Capping off NPCs and selling/trading capped ships could wreck the economy Not really part of this analysis but I thought I'd mention it here anyway. If ships capped off NPCs are similar to player-made ships, then who will buy player-made ships? What, then, do you spend your accumulated gold on? There is a different problem capping ships off players. Capping a ship once is probably fine - at least one player has to go out and buy a new one. Being able to cap the ship back later might sound line a game wrecker, but I don't think it is. Players aren't all the same and I don't see a single ship passing between players countless times; some players will consistently lose ships and others will win them. Provided winners are prevented from trading ships back to losers then new ships will still be needed. You only need level 1 buildings (edit from original post) 5 level 1 builfdings - trading like for like with other players who mine different resources - provide more than enough raw materials to use all your labour hours. Incidentally, this allows scope for introduction of some sort of resource control, such as I posted here, to make the economy more interesting without damaging it. ... and for those who like treacle ... Data and Analysis I've taken blueprint data from the json files, parsed it into a database and extracted it into a more usable form in a spreadsheet. I've checked it as best I can, but not as well as I would like and it is entirely possible there is an important error that renders this entire post meaningless. I've ignored NPC production of craftable materials. I don't know whether or not NPCs will continue to sell craftable materials but my first thoughts are this will make little difference; it will sink a little more gold, and ease LH restrictions, but not by much. I have looked at seven ships, all made of oak and all grey (trim doesn't matter for grey ships), to see how much gold and time goes into making them LH is labour hours; we currently get 1008 of these a day, without perks. BH is building hours. Each building has a daily production capacity and a building hour will make one 24th of this. With 5 level 1 buildings each player has 120 biulding hours a day (240 for level 3) - and in the BH days column I have assumed level 1 buildings. [edited]. The two 'days' columns show how many player-days are needed to build each ship (it is the higher of the two numbers that counts); it also represents the replacement time. If every player had a Trincomalee and also used all their labour hours, then they could only get a replacement ship every 2.5 days. Better look after it, then. It is interesting to note that BH days are always less than LH days, and that is with level 1 buildings. No need to waste 200k on level 3 buildings and you can afford to leave some of that coal unmined. [edited] But the important number for inflation is gold per day. If you are making Trincomalees you churn out a new ship every 2.5 days, sinking 79273 gold in the process, meaning you are only spending 32000 gold a day. But how much gold can you generate in a day? Capturing a single traders cutter and selling the cargo to NPCs in the shop will usually get you that. It seems to me that gold will accumulate in the game far quicker than it can possibly be spent, and inflation will continue. Sure, we will all be poor to start with as we set up outposts and buildings (which, incidentally, for each player will probably sink more gold than making a 1st rate - this game is terribly punishing to new players), but this is a one time only cost. In a week we'll all be rolling in gold but there won't be any ships to be had to buy because they take so long to make. Now for a quick comparison with Pirates of the Burning Sea, since I happen to have the data to hand. Be a little wary of drawing too many conclusions as Naval Action has deliberately chosen a different path from PotBS. Perhaps most notably in this context, the original PotBS economy had severe restrictions on gold (doubloons or db) entering circulation and also sought to restrict the creation and use of 'elite' ships by setting very high gold and labour requirements, paths which NA appears not to wish to follow. Quite rightly it seems, as PotBS eventually abandoned both approaches, although to be fair the gold restriction looked sound from my point of view and just needed relaxing a little. But player complaints of having no money for crafting or buying anything resulted in a wholesale overturn of the policy, flooding the economy with gold from massively-generous repeatable missions, which unsurprisingly resulted in wild inflation. A couple years later by which time lots of players had first or second rates and port battles were won or lost before they even started by whichever nation was brave enough to bring the big ships (it was rarely both), first and second rates were removed entirely from the game. The numbers below are from build 1.26, before FTP and the disappearance of first and second rates. For those who never played, the Heavy Hercules was also an elite ship, hence its high price and labour requirements - it certainly wasn't five times better than the Capricieux MC: Ignoring the top three elites, there is a very interesting contrast with NA in just how few labour hours were needed to build the smaller ships. The Cap MC isn't far off a Trincomalee in its place in the game, but only took a day to build a 3-dura ship instead of over 2 days for a grey (and nearly 4 days for a gold). Smaller ships could be churned out very quickly indeed. However, despite the variation in gold and LH costs, PotBS ships are as consistent as NA in their gold per day requirements (again, excluding the elites at the top), suggesting NA has the right idea, just with the gold to labour ratio set too low. Edited as I origianlly had the 504 LH per real life day when it should have been 1108. Also the tables didn't copy across on the original so I have added them as images Edited again as I got the building hours wrong too. The clocks changing must have addled my brain, mking me think there were only 12 hours in day.
  3. Based on community feedback, this idea is no longer being considered. Please continue to provide constructive feedback on ideas that are being presented to assist Game-Labs with thinking through new ideas for the game. Thank you. - H. Darby Hello Captains. Some of you might remember "such is a lord" topic To make conquest bear more importance on release the number of buildings slots in port will be limited. This means that the city governor will be able to only allocate 25 land plots for construction of mines, manufactures and shipyards. This means only 25 Captains can own something in the city. (number is arbitrary and currently is equal to the number of port battle winners) The system will work like this. Once you conquer the port you will receive land grants from the new governor in all cities in that region. These land grants will be required to build buildings in the cities If the port is captured by an enemy nation - enemy nation will of course takeover the land and destroy your buildings. To be able to build anything in this city you will have to recapture it. Those who don't need buildings can of course sell those land grants to adventurous businessmen. If you win the port battle alone you will get all the permits to yourself. This system main goals are Control resource supply to avoid inflation in the future Provide huge incentive to conquer and participate in conquest (ps. that's why night flips are no longer viable and tolerable)
  4. I use this spreadsheet to organize my trading. Transportation whether Harbor Freight Fast (Delivery) or Harbor Freight Slow (Ship) depends on weight. This helps to combine and round up shipments. I have seven home ports labeled (A-G) from which I choose my Missions which I check daily. I put in the numbers, find total weights using two columns on left labeled “T wt” and ” #” that automatically calculate weight. I then look for compatible transportation and ports, put in orders and start making rounds with my ships while other orders are in transit. I made it to fit a single paper sheet. In the afternoon I train for battles and later in evening I finish up when Harbor Freight Express makes deliveries. My goal is to improve so I can beat up on the cowardly Pee Rats who have taken my ships, sailors, and cargo. There may be mistakes in this spreadsheet. Please share as you like. I love all the varied challenges this game provides while recognizing it isn’t for everyone. It’s a shame there is so much rancor. My nome de nave “Captain Blackie” is in honor of my Celestial Navigation teacher from Portland Oregon from late 1980’s. He loved the So Pacific, was tired of crashing wooden boats on reefs and built a steel boat in his backyard in Oregon City. Towed it to Willamette River and I have never heard from him since. If anyone knows of him or how to contact him please let me know. Here is a small part of spreadsheet. T wt # A B C D E F G H I 0 0 American Cotton 3.60 x 0 0 Arabian Coffee 1.86 115.2 2 Arctic Fox Pelts 57.60 x x 0 0 Assam Tea 1.34 x 0 0 Black Ironwood 108.80 0 0 Burgundian Wine 8.00 400 100 Cape Coast Honey 4.00 X goodslistsheetsbase.xls
  5. We currently have a maximum of five contracts per player, and are all flooded with dozens and dozens of stacks of materials or goods which we'd like to sell, but don't want to waste a contract on. For example, I'd sell tobacco and sugar and live oak and gold and rum and iron and planks and oak logs and fir logs and bermuda cedar logs and bermuda cedar frame parts and carriages and cables and hemp and tar... But I only have five contracts, so I can only sell five at a time, or buy five at a time, which is very prohibitive for my ability to engage in trade. Unless I can put bids out for every material I need, or to sell every material I have, I'm really only using the market at a limited efficiency. And with the diminished active player base, this is severely impairing our ability to use the market. I propose the limit on contracts be moved to twenty-five, fifty, or even (with a Merchant perk) one hundred. Contract limits didn't prevent price fixing and gouging, and I'd even think contributed to it, since it limits how many price signals can go out into the marketplace. We need a free flow of information about who wants to sell or buy what in order to have a functional economy.
  6. Hi, Apologies if this was covered some place else. What is the requisite to build a labor office? I am attempting to build one in my nation capital at KPR, and it doesn't show up as an option under buildings - just coal mine and lignum vitae forest. Any ideas?
  7. Well.. Today I took my ship to Port Royal/Kingston... Right into the harbor... sat there... took a screenshot of the pretty environs.... And left in my Renomee... Later I sailed from Coquibacoa to La Orchilla... Took the time and opportunity to sit in the harbor of Willemstadt... Took a screenshot of the pretty depopulated environs... And left in my endymion... All nice and all.. taking my warships to other nations capitols, going right into their harbors and fishing in their waters and finding no-one there.. I'm a dane mind you.. playing for Denmark-Norway... And I've never experienced such a demotivating hunting trip as to be able to sail right into enemy capitols harbours (did it twice btw) and finding no-one who cared to raise a challenge.. Dastardly dutch! Where did thou go? Bloody britts!! Where art thou?! The only faction I found a player presence in was the pirates.... And they ran faster than my Renomee - They were however polite enough to tell me that their ships were made of fir and therefore no match for my Renomee... And that the ships today are so hard to come by that they wouldn't risk them in battle.. If any1 know where the dutch are - please let me know.... If any1 know where the brits went - please tell... If anyone say they has seen someone playing for the US - you must be lying.. For I have found no-one..
  8. The bug is: Large Medkits are being sold from the NPC vendor at 5,000 gold, approximately. This is a bug since: 1. Crew hires from the dock are at 500 gold each. 2. Large medkits heal 150 crew. 3. Large medkits at 5,000 gold heal crew at 5,000 / 150 = 33 gold each. And also because, from player production: 1. Large medkits require 120 food, 30 tobacco and 30 rum. 2. Food is 210 for 6, or 35 gold each. 4200 = 35x120 2. Tobacco is 500 for 4 tobacco, 125 each. 3750 = 125x30 3. Rum is 416 gold for 8 sugar, plus 2 barrels to make 36 rum. Due to a number of derivatives, NPC sale price of 75 will be used. 2250 = 75x30 10,200 is thus the lowest possible price a player could make large medkits for, assuming all of his labor hours were uncompensated and he pushed his plantation production prices directly to the customer without a markup. The consequence of this bug is: The incentive to make medkits, as well as sugar and tobacco, is utterly destroyed, as is a large source of player trading, merchant commerce and gameplay as players no longer ship sugar and tobacco home from distant ports, but instead buy up the NPC production of the finished product as it spawns. This is destroying game content, both for crafters and for PvPers. An enormous amount of fighting occured before this patch between sugar and tobacco ports and capital cities. This has now died out entirely, whereas tobacco and sugar trade was previously a major source of open-world merchant traffic. The solution to this bug is: Make a design decision. Are medkits intended to be the player-crafted means of avoiding the 500 gold crew fee, and therefore, the driving force for tobacco and sugar production and trade? Or are medkits supposed to be bought up from NPCs and sold at a mark-up to ~45,000, where their price is set by being cheaper and more convenient than crew hires. Or did you actually intend to just dump health potions on players. As I understand it the design is thus; players take casualties, players buy medkits, players craft medkits, players produce sugar and tobacco, players ship sugar and tobacco to trade hubs, players fight against pirates, players take casualties. Thus sugar and tobacco are always in demand, merchants are always carrying sugar and tobacco, and combat occurs along these trade lanes. If that is the intended state, then any NPC produced medkits should vendor at the same price as crew hires; 500 gold a crewman, or 75,000 for a large medkit, 25,000 for a medium medkit, 5,000 for a small medkit. Thus there is a soft ceiling on prices set at the hiring cost of crew, so players in a harbor can always hire crew if the local medkits are too expensive. However medkits are worth more than the hire cost of the crew they replace, as they can restore crew while at sea. I almost think you meant to put small medkits on the market for 5,000 gold. That might be the bug, since the price that makes sense for small medkits was applied to large medkits, and small medkits aren't NPC'd to the market.
  9. I made these charts to flesh out the resources in game. There are a large set of basic goods that would be found in every port. Then there is a list of items that are only found in their respective national ports. These items are either produced there (very cheap) or brought there to be dispersed from other locations (cheap) that that nation owns. This way French players will always be able to provide French Glass at a much cheaper price than other nations, but their ports will need Iberian Dried Pork, which the Spanish will profit from as well, and so on. This will drive more historical trading and give national players a reason to use their home ports and to make meaningful and long distance trade runs, not just the most profitable short run. It will rely on permanent production/consumption settings that don't reset with maintenance. I researched these items across the inter webs, some of them I already knew about, this book was a good read as well "Daily Life in the Age of Sail", as well as wiki articles on the economic history of some nations. If you know of a quintessential national item that was heavily traded in this era, let me know and I can add it to the list. I counted the spaces in the port UI and there isn't room for hundreds of items, however, it will have a limit. A rare common item is comparable in price to a plentiful fine item, the quality and availability will both affect price. Universal British, Spanish, French Danish Swedish, Dutch American
  10. I'm trying to create a picture of the money flow in Naval Action. Maybe I got it right, maybe I got it wrong. Please let me know. Completely forgot: Buy Ships, Buy Mods.
  11. This topic serves as an inventory of all good proposal that might lead into an economics patch. Should we come to a concise proposal, we'll put it forward to admin for implementation after the politics patch. To keep things organized and not end up with a topic full of disjointed posts, I would like to ask everybody to create topics within either the "Suggestions" section or the "Economy, Trading and Crafting" discussions section and post your link here. I'll ensure that this top post will be kept up to date with links to each individual proposal/discussion that the community feels is needed for the economics patch. (Be forewarned, I'll be naturally biased to my own topics. ) Note that the final inventory may not (and probably won't) reflect the first (or even the final) implementation as everything is subject to admins discretion in terms of wanted functionality and technical complexity. Keep an open mind and exploit test everything. Babble's Road Map, Table of Contents - Babble's Road Map, Resources and Resource Distribution & Production and Manufacture Buildings - CaptVonGunn's An easier life with contracts - Cid Pahlavi's Compass Wood Ruined The Economy - fransgelden's Static Economy - GeekSqueak's The Economy (and other things) - Jean Ribault's Buy & Sell Contract Expiry - Mageprince's Portside Business? - Qwolf's Player only economy - Skully's Do not surrender, here comes The Money Sink - Skully's Guide to working the Tobacco Market - Skully's Market Maker - Skully's Max. Amount of Contracts (as of 9.92) - Skully's No more taxes - Skully's The economic AI - SteelSandwich's The National Bank - Wilhlem von Bromme's Max. amount of contracts - Proposals that are not top-level yet (do not comment in those topics, like and wait for them to come top-level):Prater's Taxation Schemes - Issues/bugs:Equal priced order fulfillment - Joernson's Message about fulfilled (buy/sell) contract - Skully's Sell Contract doesn't interact with Port - snakemac's Player buy contract under AI buy price - Tacticus's Rum/Sugar bug problem - Tanacious's Contract size/price problem -
  12. Low AI demand, high production plus reasonable player demand equals competition! That market is working in this regard. Something that needed to be said.
  13. Thought I should create a seperate thread for this conversation from the feedback thread to avoid confusion. A problem on some parts of servers is that some people have been lacking enough labor hours, causing their price to skyrocket. This conversation has been discussed in depth in the general economy suggestions thread, and I found it incovnvenient to have this and other conversations going on in the same same thread, so This thread has been created.
  14. Okay, so I've seen quite a couple of posts regarding this issue in other threads that was a bit of topic and thought it would be good to open a discussion about this. The issue at hand is AI: Quality of AI ships. Should they be capturable or not? How do they influence the economy? How do they influence prices of player built ships? How can AI be used to promote PVP and PVE? 1: I would like to mention a couple of my own suggestions regarding this: First of, I would love it if they would remove the whole durability system! The durability system is currently "sinking" (pun intended) the game. I know the game is called "Naval ACTION" but there is soooo much more that could be done in order to attract other players as well. Coming back to the durability system: The durability system promotes throw-away ships, If people get onto their last durability, they are not scared of losing the ship completely. A single dura ship is useless. No mods are being used on a single dura ship either. Now by removing the the system completely, a real loss will be felt by losing a ship. By losing a ship, that nation will be weakened considerably, even more so with a 3rd, 2nd or 1st rate. This will simulate true attrition, and it will give the game much more depth than port battles only. I do agree that removing the dura system will cause some problems. For one, modules will become a hardly ever used item because at the moment modules are more valuable than ships even, which indicates a BIG problem already. To counter this, maybe all modules could be craftable, or modules should be more readily available in the shop, whether player or AI produced. 2: What is the current goal or mission of the AI except for wandering aimlessly around the open world following their brainless zombie captains? I think AI should play a MUCH bigger role in the game! If AI are implemented correctly, it can promote both PVP and PVE, it can also add much more depth in the game, and give all the players the sense of playing a major role in the overall war effort whether they prefer PVE ot PVP. How can that be achieved? Give each nation a starting fleet of x number of warships, x number of traders, and x number of smugglers. The balance can be seen and followed by any player (by interacting with the admiralty) and STOP this random spawns of AI all over the map which floods the market with all kinds of BS ships. Let the players manage the AI fleet, AI ships should be an asset to the Nation's fleet, let players protect them, Let traders do REAL trader missions and being escorted by available warships, let the AI commanders be dynamic and gain rank and the ability to crew bigger ships just as players does. Let players build ships, put them on the market at a certain price and if the ship does not get sold to another player after the expiration time, the admiralty buys the ship at a price determined by the admiralty, this price could be a fixed price, or it could be dynamic depending on the current fleet size, ship quality etc. Then this admiralty bought ship would be put into that Nation's service, running real trade routes, protecting harbors, escorting traders, whatever. And all of these ships should be capturable by any enemy trader or AI fleet, which will put that ship into service or kept by a player should he wish to. Ofcourse crew should also play a massive role in order to prevent players spawning AI ships to flood the OW. 3: AI behavior should get a serious look at in order for this to work. AI traders should always attempt to run when engaged except when a cutter engages a Gross Ventre for example. Trade routes could be setup (historical or not) which AI traders would prefer, and AI warships will engage enemy trading and enemy warships, burning capturing and sinking each other, which could be strongly influenced by any present players. AI warships could patrol coastal waters around friendly ports engaging any enemy on sight, player or AI.(This will prevent ganking) To conclude, I think the AI could and should be utilized to add allot of depth to the game, to help the war effort, to influence the economy (maybe not completely, but to an extensive degree) to add much more to the game for players who are not solely interested in port battles alone, and even to influence PVP encounters. Please feel free to discuss and criticize.
  15. I just put up a sell contract for Tobacco at $749/p in a consuming port that was not overstocked. While I could still sell directly for $750, the sell contract did not get full-filled. This looks like a bug to me.
  16. In principal there is currently little wrong with the AI. Yes, it has a silly buy and sell policy, but still these are valid. Take the compass wood case for example. As long as stores are below 25000 the AI places a bid of $1500 for 1250 units. The UI and implementation however do not reflect this at all. And you subsequently see the lottery ticket system. (It also retains the $1 bid for some reason. Another bug.) Combine that with the bug that sell contracts do not interact with AI and you have a broken system. Another point where the AI is lacking/failing, it "cheats". It can bring goods to the market way below prices that are attainable by a player driven economy. It can outproduce and outconsume players. While we have a combat AI that is made to be "equal" to us, we have an economic AI that is not. So the goal should be to get a challenging economic AI that does not cheat. However there are also some roles of the AI to take into account: Bootstrap the economy. Provide a money faucet. Provide a money sink. One of the money sinks is grey ships. Here it also very apparent that the AI cheats. AI ships should be sold at a realistic price, so players can actually compete. This however will probably make grey ships too expensive. Maybe we can start with making AI build ships, 1 dura greys as opposed to 5? Or let players choose between 1 and 5. We should also make it so any dura ship can be put into a contract. Another one is the crew replacement. Is the price too high? No, as long as players can compete against the AI, the price can be anything. Both are probably insufficient to serve as the ultimate money sink, so there is likely more to come. I also want to keep money faucets/sinks as something to address later. As for the money faucet aspect, this is the consumption happening around the map. It should be tuned based on the amount of gold in the game, nothing else. It could however be tied to nations. But definetely not by players wanting a faucet. As a next step, I'll see if I can a clean calculation of a grey Constitution as to highlight the AI pricing and propose tweaks.
  17. Previous discussion is at As of 9.65 resource buildings have been added, which changes the picture and arguments presented in that topic. I can name at least two reasons for this to change: To come to price equilibrium as fast as possible it should be possible for any player to perform any role in the market. Be it seller, buyer or market maker. To encourage open market trading. More can be found by reading up on how open markets function in real life, but I don't want to overextend just yet. For this to be achievable the maximum number of contracts needs to go. Please present cases where this would be a problem.
  18. Liebe Gemeinde, ich hatte gerade mit dem ehrenwerten Wilson eine Debatte über die Frage, warum ich in letzter Zeit immer wieder davon schreibe, dass die Wirtschaft in Naval Action gerade den Bach runter geht. Hier noch einmal für die Öffentlichkeit eine Zusammenstellung der Faktoren, die aus meiner Sicht in Kombination dazu führen. Ich hoffe dass die Developer das System bald wieder reparieren und gerade nur nochmal massiv testen, bevor bald ein Wipe kommt oder so.... Also erstmal zur leichten Kost gucken wir uns an. Eine schöne Erläuterung der klassischen Problematik der Geldentwertung in MMOs. Wir haben mehrere Effekte die zusammenspielen und in Kombination das Wirtschaftssystem in Naval Action momentan gegen die Wand fahren: 1. Durch die Reduzierung von XP Kosten sind plötzlich große Zahlen Spieler in einen höheren Rang gewechselt --> starke Steigerung der Nachfrage nach Schiffen (ich will meine Pavel! Jetzt! Sofort!) 2. Durch die Abschaffung der Kapermechanik für 3rd Rates ist die Nachfrage nach Port Battle Schiffen ebenfalls gestiegen und wird weiter steigen wenn Kriege starke Verluste bringen. --> Nachfragesteigerung 3. Durch die Normalisierung der NPC Port Preise für Rohstoffe können Spieler jetzt unbegrenzte Mengen an Roshtoffen für garantierte Preise an Verbraucherhäfen verkaufen. Damit entziehen einige wenige aber sehr aktive "Trader" dem System Rohstoffe für den Schiffbau weil der Verkauf an NPC Ports diese ja vernichtet. --> Preissteigerung von Rohstoffen auf mindestens den in Verbraucherhäfen angebotenen garantierten Fixpreis (z.B. 1.500 Gold pro Compass Wood oder 223 für Eisen) 4. Gleichzeitig Betreiben viele Spieler auch noch Produktionsgebäude, um aus knappen Labour Hours wertloses (komme ich gleich drauf) Gold zu erwirtschaften --> Verknappung der Resource Labour Hours 5. Bislang war die einzige Möglichkeit, labour hours zu "erwirtschaften" das Zerlegen von gekaperten Schiffen (in Schiffskomponenten, in denen ja labour hours drinstecken). Das gibt es jetzt nur noch für AI Trader, aber keiner kann mehr 3rd Rates in Missionen kapern um da large carriages rauszubekommen. --> weitere Verknappung der Resources Labour hours. Das wirkt sich alles schonmal negativ auf die Preise aus (was ich so von den Piraten höre, waren bei dort die Preise für Schiffe aber schon vorher abartig, vielleicht bekommen die den Effekt deshalb nicht ganz so stark mit wie wir bei den Holländern mit bislang moderaten Schiffpreisen?) Die Punkte oben sind also ist also die klassischen Faktoren einer Mangelwirtschaft. Und jetzt kommt auch noch Inflation dazu: 1. Missionen und Port Battles werfen kranke Mengen an Gold ab. Die Schweden sind aus Port Battles im Krieg mit uns Holländern regelmäßig mit ca. 300k-500k Gold pro Spieler rausgekommen. 2. Kaperst Du eine Victory in einer Mission bekommst Du 200k-300k ZUSÄTZLICH zu Deinen ohnehin schon zu großen Einnahmen aus den Missionen 3. Mit den fixen und garantierten Preisen von verbrauchenden Häfen können Spieler über Produktionsgebäude 1000 Gold pro Compass Wood erwirtschaften. Ich hab keine Ahnung, wieviele Einheiten 5x Lvl Compass Gebäude pro Tag maximal generieren können, aber wir haben mit 1000 theoretisch erwirtschaftbarem Gold pro labour hour schonmal einen neuen kranken Wert einer Labour Hour erreicht, weil alle anderen wirtschaftlichen labour hour Aktivitäten ja weniger Profit bringen als 5x Compass Wood Gebäude zu betreiben. Wer kann mir sagen, was 5x Compass Wood Buildings lvl 3 pro Tag produzieren und wieviele Labour hours man zum "ernten" dieser Menge benötigt? Dank schonmal im Voraus für die Info. 4. Durch die XP-Senkung für Spielerränge können mehr Spieler jetzt höherrangige Schiffe segeln und höhere Missionen im PvE machen --> NOCH mehr Einnahmen aus Kills und Assists von Victories und Santissimas in fleet orders auf dem Server. Der starren und durch labour hours begrenzten Schiffbauökonomie werden also neben der gesteigerten Nachfrage auch noch unbegrenzte Geldmengen zugeführt. Wenn ein Spieler 500k Gold pro Stunde erwirtschaften kann, wie hoch soll ich denn den Preis für eine Victoriy oder Santissima ansetzen, in der ja 7 Manntage Labour Hours drinstecken + bis zu 35 Medium Crafting Notes von exceptional upgrades? 10 Millionen? 20 Millionen? Ich habe in feinster DDR Manier schon mit dem Hoarding von Rohstoffen begonnen - ich kaufe in NPC Häfen mit dem nunmehr wertlosen Gold ALLE Rohstoffe auf, an die ich meine Hände legen kann. 10.000 Iron in meinem Warehouse sind 1.5 Millionen Gold - also drei Fleet Missions für einen PvE Spieler. Das ist nicht verhältnismäßig, wenn man bedenkt wieviel Zeit man aufwendet um die 10.000 Eisen ranzukarren ... Ich hoffe, meine Ausführungen sind verständlich - Gegenargumente? Feedback? Vielleicht kann auch jemand mal erklären, warum die Devs die dynamischen Preise in NPC Häfen abgestellt haben? Es war die Reden von "exploits abschaffen" aber aus meiner Sicht hat das Abschalten der dynamischen Preise der Gesamtwirtschaft eigentlich nur geschadet? Was habe ich übersehen? Gruß, Hugo van Grojt Eigner der Schiffswerft "Hugo Republic Shipyards", Willemstad
  19. First I want t o start by saying I think the Dev's have created an awesome naval combat simulator. The graphics and controls are incredible. Problem is that once you get past that portion, the game, well it gets very stale, very quickly. This game is not for the weak at heart as sailing is slow and requires a time commitment that not all gamers are willing to invest. Combat is loads of fun, but also very time consuming and unless you really enjoy PVE can at times be difficult to find. So what else is there? Crafting? Fun... ok maybe a little but even that gets dull quickly, especially when acquiring the goods is easy albeit time consuming (again). So again I ask what else could make the game fun and exciting? I was trying to figure out an idea I could pass along to the Dev's as I really enjoy this game and have seen a dramatic drop in online players just in the short period I have been playing. Then this happened today. I was reading a game chat where people were discussing a new peace treaty and arguing about clan decisions and how they are made, and surprisingly enough there was a ton of disunity in the chat. I wondered what could bring these people together as a nation???? Well what brings people together now as nations? Economy and general defense are the two main driving goals of any nation. Without these two things there would be no nations. So I went back and I read some history of the Caribbean's and the wars fought there and guess what I discovered... they were all fought over wealth!!!! So to create a simulated world war game without having a reason to go to war kind of gets dull as there is nothing to gain by winning/losing. And a lot of time invested for the few battles that you may encounter in an evening of playing. I believe what the game needs is a living breathing economy to match the world the Dev's have created. What if everything in the game had a price tag? And I mean everything not resources for crafting but everything. PLAYER ECONOMY: *You could start with crews and upkeep for ships. In real world you pay for your employees or they quit right? You upkeep your car or it quits right? So incorporate this into the game. You want a Victory fine but it has a cost per month attached to it hence you better make money or it gets repossessed. *You want buildings great but you will have to pay taxes to the crown. *Want to build a new ship wonderful but you have to buy a permit (more taxes) to do so. WORLD ECONOMY: *the crown needs taxes and trade to survive. Make these things dependent for the success of any nation. More nation money larger AI fleets, better port defenses, increase/decrease of cost of goods in the ports. Ports =taxes so now we have a reason to attack/defend ports based on there tax/cash return. AI trade fleets should be the lifeblood of trade and should have a monthly national cost tagged to them. If your nation has no money no AI fleets to bring in goods. So now we have a reason to protect our trade fleets, not use them as a means for collecting resources. It also gives players good reason to attack other nations AI fleets as it will have a damaging effect on that nations economy. Just some thoughts I had to keep the game alive and growing. Giving people something to strive for as a nation will bring the kind of players I believe Naval Action deserves.
  20. Very simple suggestion: I think we should be allowed more contracts above the current limit of 5. I think the player economy would be more vibrant if we don't stifle the commerce between players by having a cap on trading contracts. I also think the game needs more gold sinks so... I think each contract should have a progressively higher "contract fee". Players can have lots of contracts but, eventually, they will become too expensive to maintain as the cost for contracts goes up. Inflation is very important to address. I know this game is alpha but this is the best time to handle economic changes and get inflation under control. Inflation is a major factor in new player retention.
  21. I do not know if this is already suggested, I could not find any posts. Good day to you captains, I think we should have two national channels, one economy channel (trading etc.) and one for warfare (pb, spotting etc.) The server really needs this to stop the everyday drama that is the national chat, pvp and pve whining about not helping eachother and everything just turns into a salty flaming fest. With two seperate channels there will no longer be players screaming like they're on a market selling their goods through warfare commands and such. - Hornigold
  22. Hello, so recently started playing a little as I have finished my exams ect now, woo! So when I logged on the first time the other day, Since maybe February, I was delighted to see that my rank had increased! and I could potentially sail a larger ship. I was so excited it was amazing! Then I hit up the marketplace to see what the Dutch Shipwright's had been up too, and of course hoping to find a shiny new toy to play with...... I was massively disappointed to find that there were only a sprinkling a 4th rates and above, and those that are available are being sold for crazy money! I mean, near 2million for a fine 4th rate! really!?!? When the exceptional trinco's are being sold for max, 5-600k. So yea I don't know, I have been away for a good few months so I guess things have changed! Just find it odd that the step up in price gap is so large! Anyone want to fill me in as to why this may be the case please feel free! I know there are clans, guilds ect and that they will produce ships for their own as a priority ect and port battles and all that goodness but the open market is just crazy. Still yet to sail the Bellona, the only ship that I really want, and I guess as close as I thought I was im actually rather far away! Sorry if this comes across like a rant, its not my intent to cause a stir! im just a little... gutted I guess that I have to wait on for a rate. but hey ho, sails up and on we go
  23. The following is a bit of an extension and revision of the list of suggestions i provided earlier entitled "The Roadmap". I will link those posts at the bottom of this one for any interested. The following would fall mostly in section 9, resource distribution. The goal is to give the players a reason to want to capture ports, sail around the map, and do more then just sit in their own corners grinding fleets. Map download linked here. It is rather large so i suggest starting the download while you continue reading and opening it when its complete to get a better idea of what I'm proposing. I will not be touching on pirate mechanics as it is a hot button issue. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I Will try to break how this will work down as logically as possible into sections but in order to get the economy functioning adequately it is difficult to not get detailed. I will break this post into 3 parts and keep it short as possible. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I will start with : 1.)Resource distribution. I took an incredible map created by a member of our community, whose name i cannot remember at the moment, and redistributed the games resources (added a few) around the map evenly. I classified the resources into 3 tiers: Common (needed for basic ship crafting), Uncommon (needed for higher tier ship crafting), and Rare (Some luxury goods for trade and some resources needed for high end ship crafting.)I also reduced the number of Regional Capitals and Free towns to better suit the in game lifestyle. You will see all resources are distributed evenly throughout the map giving no faction an advantage. This is the same for free towns and Regional Capitals. Specific resources: (and number of ports that produce the good.) Common: Fir x 14 Teak x 14 Pine x 14 Coal x 14 Stone x 14 Salt x 14 Iron x 14 Hemp x 14 Grain x 14 Livestock x 14 Game x 14 Fish x 13 Uncommon: Oak x 11 Redwood x 11 Silver x 11 Copper x 11 Sugar x 11 Tobacco x 11 Fruit x 11 Lignum x 10 Compass wood x 10 Rare: Live Oak x 10 Gold x 10 Silk x 8 Cocoa x 8 Spices x 8 Nation specific Goods: Indian Tea (Great Britain) x 1 French Wine (France) x 1 Iberian Meat (Espana) x 1 American Cotton (U.S.) x 1 Swedish Iron (Sverige) x 1 Batavarian Spices (Dutch) x 1 Danish Beer (Danmark) x 1 Nation Specific Dyes: Saffron (Great Britain) Indigo (France) Barberry (Espana) Sassafras (United States) Concheal (Sverige) Woad (Dutch) Tumeric (Danmark) Each port produces only one resource except for each nations capital. Due to the capital being so crowded it can only support level 1 production buildings. (Exception is the shipyard which can be up to level 3.) The capital: produces : coal, oak, salt, grain, stone lignum, copper its nation nation good Regional capitals: Produce whichever dye is related to to the controlling nation. Regional capitals can support up to a level 3 shipyard. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 2.) The economy: A.)Markets There are no longer markets for trade in every port. Capitals, Regional Capitals, and Free towns are now the only market bearing port types. Capitals and Regional capitals are linked to the Europe for some trade aspects. Free towns are player to player trade only. The player can either yell in local port chat that they are selling goods and trade the old fashion way or they can ship the goods to a market bearing port for trade. Only Capitals and Regional Capitals now consume raw resources. (Other ports can consume provision and luxury bundles but that is covered in other sections of "The Roadmap") Every 2 hours the local demand for a given resource in a capital and regional capital increases by a specific amount adding to the over all pool of demand for the resource locally.(A capital will buy 159 fir logs locally every 2 hours or 1908 a day with a max 3 day cap of local demand at 5724) Each port will buy a given resource that is in demand at a set price until the local demand is satisfied. Any goods sold to the port beyond the local demand can be sold to the European Traders at reduced profit. Contracts will work as they always have. Example: Capitals consume 159 fir log every 2 hours . A level 1 fir logging camp produces 1 fir log per 24 Bullion invested. You can sell 159 fir logs to the capital to satisfy local demand at 45 Bullion a log. The European Trader will buy your remaining stock for 30 Bullion a log You can always list goods at a higher price and sell them to players. You can buy goods from the European Traders at 3 times the local port consumption rate. I.E. 135 per fir log. I have calculated the consumption rates for both Capitals and Regional Capitals as well as production, and sales costs for all resources based on rarity, necessity for crafting , and other factors.. I will list this mostly boring information at the very bottom for those interested. Free Towns are not linked to the European Traders and do not consumer resources. Any goods bought or sold will be strictly player to player at whatever price they set. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ B.)Currency and Banking: The in game currency is now Bullion. Bullion is now a good that can be stored in warehouses, shipped in boats, and and transferred from bank to bank. Capitals, Regional Capitals, and Free Towns all have banks. You can spend any Bullion you currently posses at any port for repairs or to purchase things such as warehouses and outposts. Your production buildings are linked to your Nation's Capital bank account and draw from it for costs related to harvesting goods. National Banks The Banks in Capitals and Regional Capitals owned by your nation are independent but connected. For Example: You can have 200,000 in the Bank at your capital and another 50,000 at a Regional Capital for a total of 250,000 in wealth. If you are in the regional capital your spending power is 50,000 unless you transfer more funds to your Regional Capital Account from your Capital account. There is no limit to the amount of money you can store at any given National bank. You can transfer money between any National Bank freely but are charged a 5% administration fee and the transfers take 2 hours to verify the transfer. You can Transfer money from any National Bank to a a Free Town bank or vice versa but you are charged a 15% transfer fee and the transfer takes 3 hours to verify. You can withdraw your Bullion for free from any National bank you are currently in as a good if : You have an outpost in that port to store it in or You have a boat large enough to haul the Bullion Depositing money in any National Bank in a port you are currently docked in is free. Free Town Banks: The Banks in Free Towns are not connected to one another and stand as independent institutions. Free town banks are smaller and can only house up to 800,000 in an account for any player at any given time. They don't trust the stability of other Free town banks and will not accept transfers of money to and from other Free Town banks. They trust the stability of the Nations far more and are willing to accept transfers with increased administrative costs. You can transfer money from any National Bank to any Free Town bank or vice versa at a 15% transfer fee with 3 hour transfer verification time. You can withdraw your Bullion for free from any Free Town Bank you are currently in as a good if : You have an outpost in that port to store it in or You have a boat large enough to haul the Bullion Depositing money in any Free Town bank in a port you are currently docked in is free. Bank Notes: Any player can be issued a bank Note from any bank that stores some of its Bullion which they can keep on their person. (I.E. does not need to be shipped as a good and is not lost if sunk.) Bank notes come in 4 set sizes. 5k, 15k, 30k, and 50k. In order to be issued a bank note from a given bank you must have at least funds equal to that of the bank note you are being issued. (I.E. I have 37,000 Bullion stored in the Bank of La Tortue so i can be issued a 30k bank note from that bank.) You can only have one bank note on you at a given time. Bank notes can be used to repair you ships or purchase repairs in any port and the cost is deducted from your note. You can redeem your bank note for Bullion at any other bank then the one issuing it with: a 5% fee from National to National a 15% fee from Nation to Free port or vice versa a 15% fee from Free town to free town. Or to the bank that issued it for free. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 3.)Sailing Speed: Since the new resource distribution and banking mechanics will require more sailing form the player a propose we increase the max open world speed by 30%. With a max speed cap of 26 knots. Some think this will ruin the immersion and imagine ships flying around the map but i think it will do the opposite by drawing more players out into the world to sail around for a reason without bogging them down with work like hours to do simple tasks such as sailing. I present the following examples as of the proposed speed increase. For the following i will be using is an excellent community built navigation aid that very accurately represents the time to sail between two points at a given speed. Considering 20 knots is near current max open world speed I will use this as the start of our example and a 30% increase i propose as the new max speed of 26 knots. I will set a start and ending destination at various distances and give examples of time to sail currently and time to sail after proposed speed increase. I will do this at max current speed and max proposed speed as well as at a very good current speed of 15 knots to the increased speed of 19.5. Please consider this is maintaining that speed for the entire duration despite open world wind shifts and such. In other words these times will increase even more in the real world. Tumbado to Mantua: 20 knots 14 minutes game time (current max speed) 26 knots 11 minutes game time (new proposed max.) 15 knots 18 minutes (Good current speed.) 19 knots 14 minutes (Good new proposed speed.) Tumbado to Las Tortugas: 20 knots 25 minutes 26 knots 19 minutes 15 knots 33 minutes 19 knots 26 minutes Tumbado to Santa Rosa: 20 knots 50 minutes 26 knots 39 minutes 15 knots 67 minutes 19 knots 53 minutes All of these voyages are in the same region yet are extremely time consuming for the player. How often do you set sail and go afk or alt+tab to do something else. This is not immersive. Its the opposite. How often do you sail around for an hour or so looking for some pvp only to find some lone navy brig which of course you attack out of bordem. The Navy brig crys he is being ganked or out gunned out numbered and hes right. But no one wants to play a game for 3 hours a night and do nothing but wait for people to sail around. The increased sail speeds do not break immersion and lead to to fleets flying around the map. It will lead to more people on the OS shipping goods for the economy, trading in far off ports, and more frequent pvp with less pain from sailing distances. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Part 2 coming tomorrow will include: Regional capitals and their child ports. Uncommon and Rare fishing instances. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Other Sections of the un-revised "Roadmap" (Section 1-8 here : (Edit: section 9-10 here (Edit: Section 11-12 here (Edit: Section 13-14 here ) (Edit: Section 15-18 here ) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Boring Econ Specifics I promised earlier in the post. Feel free to skip or ignore if not interesting to you. You will notice all goods make a 20% profit from production cost to sale to European trader and an additional 50% profit if the resource is sold to fill the local port consumption. All number can be tweaked. The goal was to set a standard profit on goods in a regulated market based on rarity of said good. Edit: i noticed that the formatting of excel did not transfer very well for the pricing information if anyone is interested i can make the excel documents available for download. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Super cool map download link again >
  24. I like to see the port production and consumption increasing and decreasing by themselves, depending on the trading and movement of goods. I suggest a new model must be put in place. When there is a shortage of a certain resource in a producing port, the production rate must increase with 1-3% each day, but if there is an abundance, the production rate can be decreased with 3-7%. Thus the prices will increase and fall accordingly. The prices must be the main force for determine the increase/decrease in the production of the goods in the port. On the consumption side it will be a bit different. The more goods is dropped at the consuming port, the higher the consumption must become, but the prices must fall. This will help ports consuming all the resources, but at the same time, not make the incentive for players to trade with that particular port due the price drops. Thus in the following process, the port will begin to reduce its consumption and prices will increase and then players will start trading with the respective port. We can look about 3-7% increase in consumption, but 1-2% decrease in the consumption rate. Prices must fluctuate accordingly. With the new addition of production buildings, the economy is accelerated, but the same rules still applies. Production buildings in its current state is only beneficial for crafters, but people still can collect the resources and sell it on the market if they can find a profitable port to do so.
  25. I think we should use low level notes at all levels of crafting. At high levels of crafting, all notes should be used. low level ships require low grade mid level ships require mid grade and low grade high level ships require high grade mid grade and low grade for example, upgrade could use 1 high note, 2 mid notes, and 3 low notes. a santisima could use 4 high notes, 3 mid notes, and 2 low notes. I think it would be a great way to give new players a meaningful way to earn money and contribute to the economy in a meaningful way. This could help a lot of people get over the initial economic hump, help them break into crafting, and encourage player retention.