Challenge

You guys are already in tomorrow from where I am, so it's day after tomorrow for me?

And in that 1hr and 2o min they weren't able to repair one of the masts? I only takes 15 min in our time acceleration -- that's what maybe an hour in real time?

In NA's previous incarnation people did sail halfway across the Caribbean to get some hard to get resources. So, yeah, pretty sure they would still for some of the woods.

You are missing that once communications with people who have access to resources you do not (other nations) we will not be able to do this.

According to the devs' statement of the original concept, this was supposed to be a ship to ship combat game. The whole conquest thing was an "also added" that made less and less real pvp ship combat happen. It also (but this i my opinion) drove the game to the point where folks using only really big boats with tactics that were stagnant before 1850. As one of the pirates said: SoL will get shredded by faster, lighter ships fighting a melee style of combat. I've listened, read and watched the YouTubes... none of what I see is very impressive from a tactical standpoint. It's the same battle over and over and over and over and over... There was a reason there weren't massive changes of ownership in the Caribbean during the age of sail. A few were taken and fewer held -- it was just too expensive an undertaking. Port battles and "conquest" will eventually -- and fairly quickly is the game's life, I believe -- end up with one side owning everything or so near to it it won't matter. And that really will kill the game.

They'd get the "we're better" feeling from the arena with leader boards and "team" standings, as well.

That would be a good compromise between nothing and omniscient, victor. There are a few things that would make trading easier: a list like you suggested, or at least list of who is in port (irl I could scan the harbor and read ship names).

But there isn't any way to know when someone from another nation is in port, nor to arrange a meeting. Makes the trade channel a bit worthless unless you sit in the harbor, select on the way in and send a PM. "Hey sailor, what some ore?" I was going to say wood, but....

I suppose that depends on how badly you want pudding. His point was we could call the medium of exchange whatever you want. @Macjimm The point of using money is so that we don't have to pull wagons full of stuff around to go shopping -- it's a question of convenience. Since we are traveling around with a hold full of stuff anyway, what reason is there not to do goods/goods trading? Putting up buy/sell offers on the shop should always be for cash, but if we meet somewhere we should be able to direct trade for goods. There is a lot more of that happening irl today than you may think. @victor If they go ahead and remove global chat we would not be able to direct trade with someone from another nation whether we are in a Free Port or not.

Said this in another thread: Stepping a new mast is an all day affair having a lot of risk is you are not in dry dock. It would not, should not, and could not be done on open water, in battle, at all. It is beyond stupid to think thi should be a thing. It's like pulling and replacing an aircraft engine while you're falling out of the sky.

without rvr/pbs you have a game of smaller battles and trading/sailing in the Caribbean. OW is what makes this different than an arena game, not rvr/pb.

@Ghroznak this isn't the final release so you're likely to face another wipe or two before it's done. Just the nature of the beast I'm afraid.

I think the "give me what I want or you will lose all your players" approach isn't a good way to convince the devs to rush it for you. It's been tried to death and hasn't worked yet.

Is this just due to the numbers?

All gun ports were closed when under sail without a battle in the offing. They were generally opened only when running the guns out for a fight.

A score being 20, and PB being 25v25, there are at least three score people wanting PBs I think it can be a big econ driver as long as it isn't as it is now -- craft a 1st rate in one or two days. Join your clan/nation for a big fight; rinse and repeat every few days. They should be the culmination of a large effort by many people. Otherwise they're nothing special and you might as well be in the combat sim the devs are giving us. And why just for PBs? Fleet battles on the open sea can be just as entertaining. This isn't an empire building game neh?

And ruin it for many others. This is the one flaw in EVE Online in my opinion, but within its context it makes sense. It isn't the only model that makes things work, and the idea of the Clans being more like the Dutch East India Company fighting for control of resources makes more sense in a game with this historic setting. I don't think PBs should be ended by any means. I do, however, think they should be difficult to set up if territory is the prize. One of the issues that PB enthusiasts complain about is how they have to fight their way through screeners to get to the port and then deal with pursuers if they lose and have to sail home again. Why is that? I would think this would be more PVP -- isn't that what they want? Or is it just big fights with big ships? The devs have a solution for that, which doesn't have an effect on those of us in the OW. But to be more on topic... @OneEyedSnake The idea was floated before and came under considerable challenge from a wide group of players. PvPers in Europe and the US, Asia, Aus/NZ, and others commented unfavorably for a number of reasons. PvE players don't want to be relegated to a small section of the map, or to a Pacific coast with nowhere to sail -- they are in it to experience sailing, trading and fighting in the Caribbean. They just don't care for the cutthroat competitiveness of PvP. Many actually liked the idea of having the Gulf as a PvE zone so they could support and even participate in PvP battles. Many of those ideas, in your attitude, are dismissed. For example, just because your geography bears a similarity to the Himalayas don't think your infrastructure does. The lag from Texas sometimes gives me freezes and warps: not always, nor very bad, but I still get them. The distance from Colorado to Germany is 5,111 miles; from Australia it's 9,049: Even at the speed of light it will take twice as long for a ping to get there. It isn't necessarily a bad idea, just not a good one imo.

What @Mulcaster said. If it is a resource needed for crafting anything it needs to be produced by players, not the AI. Even all those woods we aren't allowed to harvest currently. The 7th rates and light cannon used by most starting characters could be supplied by the AI market so they were always available. Anything else, however, should be left to the players. @Fenris I was a big advocate of the barter trade until I started looking at the test bed. Now I'm not so sure. It's gotten a bit more complicated and if you spend the majority of your game time clicking buttons to get all the resources, craft the mats, combine the mats, build the ship, etc... when were you going to fight? It makes more sense to follow the open econ model than the one you are suggesting. And, as a point of curiosity, how do you plan on doing all this yourself with only five production buildings? You'll need a ship yard, a workshop for cannon, a handful of resource buildings: you need to get the rest of the bits from someone. And batering for it goods for goods is still buying them from someone else. Remus' example shows how the demand for ships will grow and it will be faster if more people build different parts. The drain on any one person's LH will be less, so ships get built faster.

Sadly I was working during this.

Yes, for the first character you get a redeamable for lvl, cash and rank. Once you use it, it's gone, so it's a one-shot. Don't cash it in until you're sure that's the nation you want to play.

Just make it so you can't tag or be tagged for some length of time after leaving a battle. No invisibility spell, no TP -- just can't be tagged long enough to make a break for it.

You know you can turn it off, right?

oops.

Global chat does help, I think. With it I was able to learn that someone was looking for resources I had, and was flush in what I needed. We arranged a meeting and sailed into a free port for the trade. But if we could only use the contract system I could only sell for cash; he could only buy for cash -- and neither of us needed that. In another case someone posted for a good and I told them where I had seen some. I wasn't in a position to go get it myself, so I couldn't buy and resell. I can see it working without it. It would be much more realistic, but would take longer to get things up and running, and may require more players than we have on any of the servers atm. But it could work.

Devs keep saying they want to have a player-driven economy, but aren't providing tools to make it happen. Without Global chat there isn't any real way of communicating with fellow traders; no way of knowing what, where or when goods are put up for trade or sale. The system that says your country is either an ally or an enemy of others, without any allowance for the concept of neutral or even friendly (but not allied) has never entered the discussion. Yet, historically, that is what happened. Serious, hard core PvPers don't want to trade anyway. Hell, many don't want in-game trade at all. They howled when the resource distribution was made more realistic because they had to get them from other players, from other national factions. They live only for PBs and would prefer this be a lobby set up to avoid all the crappy stuff like gaining experience, actual strategic planning. The only reason they bother with the OW is looking for traders to steal from (the same traders that would build the economy the Devs talk about, and provide the PvP player with the resources and materials to build the boats they want) or getting to the next PB. While I don't have a problem with players with that mindset I feel they have had an influence on the lack of trade tools. I am confused about how the devs want to get a player econ up and running without tools, however. The horrid chat behavior, for example, is why the Global chat is considered for a cut. People who only see this as an us/them; must crush everything, everyone that isn't me or mine tend to be a bit rude.